time out errors

[web@ack]

Hi

wondering if anyone can help.

i installed actinic on a customers computer last week and they are having problems uploading and downloading orders. When doing either, they get a timeout error popping up. On upload, it still uploads the pages so not soo bad however on downloading orders, it wont pull anything down.

they are running on a big network and initially we had problems with connecting through the firewall however we can get through the firewall now i believe but we are just getting the timeout error.

I have the store up on my computer and can upload and downbload orders fine.

Can anyone offer any tips?

also in network setup, was does Use Passive FTP Transfers mean and would it help to have this ticked? I also have Ignore Passive Transfer Errors ticked, would this effect it also?

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks

[ianb]

Check out the thread below yours. I have also been having a problems with getting orders off my site.

At one stage my host wanted me to edit perl files but as the download occasionally works I decided this was not the way ahead.

I have been working on this problem now for over a month. The host has been running trace tests today but keep saying its not a problem with them.

I can't imagine the hassle I will get changing host but that seems to be my only recourse left to me.

Would be interested to hear how you get on!

p.s. the problem is worse when there are actually orders on the site, how frustrating is that!

[webyourbusiness]

ianb,

if you have a linux host with mod_rewrite and move to a dedicated IP host, you can move without losing a single visitor... we move sites to our servers and setup a forwarding from the old site to the new one to cover the DNS propogation delays - we've done it LOTS of times.

[webyourbusiness]

also in network setup, was does Use Passive FTP Transfers mean and would it help to have this ticked? I also have Ignore Passive Transfer Errors ticked, would this effect it also?


Check it... many networks take a lot longer to respond unless you have it checked. We have all of our sites on this setting, and we don't get timeouts.

I'd also recommend running a traceroute between you and the host..

Windows: start menu - run - command
when the dos window appears:

> tracert www.yourdomain.com

See if you get responses in the 200+ range - these are potential problems, 500+ and you WILL get timeouts.

Of course it's not perfect, as ICMP pings are generally given the lowest priority on a properly configured network...

another thing to check is if any of your intermediate routers appear here:

http://www.broadbandreports.com/badrouters

If you find that a router between you and your host is going bad, this can affect transfers terribly...

One last thing... does your host have other actinic sites? If so, they would probably have increased the ftp timeout for their ftp daemon - if not, they should do so...

regards

Greg Hewitt-Long

[ianb]

Great idea for moving host while not having to wait for the DNS to filter through, thanks for that.

I have sent the comments about upping the FTP timeout to my host but have been deafend by the silence.......

[EaglesNest]

Hi all,

Could some please explain why I would be getting the above captioned error dialog? When I am uploading my store via cable I have to retry at least 3 times and then I will get another dialog that tells me that the FTP server disconnected, when I retry on that one it will go for a while and I have to retry with the above 3 or 4 times before the entire store uploads.

Do I need to increase the settings in Advanced|Network Settings| FTP Options?

Thanks
Eagle

[webyourbusiness]

EaglesNest,

1. check that "use passive ftp" and "ignore passive ftp errors" are BOTH checked.

2. traceroute the server - both web and FTP if they are different, and post the results here.

[EaglesNest]

EaglesNest,

1. check that "use passive ftp" and "ignore passive ftp errors" are BOTH checked.

2. traceroute the server - both web and FTP if they are different, and post the results here.

Thanks for the reply. As you can see the timings are pretty impressive with the exception of the initial hop from my local pc to my router and out of my router.

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Richard Toia>tracert ftp.arassoc.com

Tracing route to ftp.arassoc.com [64.21.63.5]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1 - My Local PC
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 12.244.28.1
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 12.244.65.53
5 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms 12.244.72.66
6 18 ms 16 ms 17 ms gbr1-p70.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.123.137.22]
7 17 ms 18 ms 16 ms tbr1-p012501.phlpa.ip.att.net [12.122.12.97]
8 18 ms 19 ms 18 ms tbr1-cl8.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.2.17]
9 24 ms 20 ms 18 ms gar1-p341.nwrnj.ip.att.net [12.123.0.37]
10 20 ms 20 ms 18 ms att-gige.esd1.nwr.nac.net [12.119.140.26]
11 21 ms 21 ms 20 ms 3.ge-3-0-0.gbr2.nwr.nac.net [209.123.11.189]
12 19 ms 18 ms 19 ms 0.so-0-3-0.gbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.11.233]
13 20 ms 19 ms 19 ms 64.21.63.5

Trace complete.
---------------------------FROM DSNSTUFF.COM---------------
Hop Time 1 Time 2 Time 3 IP Hostname Return TTL Country Time
1 3 ms 11 ms 12 ms 216.26.129.91 [www.DNSstuff.com 1st hop] 251 UNITED STATES Unix: 20:13:39.588
2 2 ms 6 ms 6 ms 216.26.129.91 core-rtr02.ge-1-3-0.sdf.xodiax.net. 251 UNITED STATES Unix: 20:13:39.599
3 5 ms 9 ms 8 ms 216.26.128.229 edge-rtr01.ge-0-2-0.sdf.xodiax.net. 251 UNITED STATES Unix: 20:13:39.607
4 6 ms 9 ms 9 ms 12.118.180.9 [Missing reverse DNS entry] 251 UNITED STATES Unix: 20:13:39.622
5 26 ms 30 ms 30 ms 12.123.210.22 tbr1-p012902.cgcil.ip.att.net. 249 UNITED STATES
6 40 ms 55 ms 55 ms 12.122.10.1 tbr1-cl1.n54ny.ip.att.net. 248 UNITED STATES
7 35 ms 55 ms 64 ms 12.123.214.181 gar1-p3100.nwrnj.ip.att.net. 248 UNITED STATES
8 62 ms 83 ms 97 ms 12.119.140.26 att-gige.esd1.nwr.nac.net. 240 UNITED STATES Unix: 20:13:39.889
9 58 ms 67 ms 80 ms 209.123.11.189 3.ge-3-0-0.gbr2.nwr.nac.net. 240 UNITED STATES Unix: 20:13:39.989
10 60 ms 68 ms 78 ms 209.123.11.233 0.so-0-3-0.gbr1.oct.nac.net. 239 UNITED STATES Unix: 20:13:40. 86
11 70 ms 79 ms 89 ms 64.21.63.5
[Reached Destination][Missing reverse DNS entry] 48 UNITED STATES


Thanks
Eagle

[webyourbusiness]

ok - those traces look fine...

Is this a *nix box?

If so, do you have SSH ability?

What ftp daemon are they running?

If you can ssh to the box - have they penned you in - or can you look around without getting into trouble?

I'd ask them about ftp daemon timeout settings - make sure they are not set too low... if you can look around, check /etc/proftpd.conf

[EaglesNest]

ok - those traces look fine...

Is this a *nix box?

Yes...

General server information:
Operating system Linux
Service Status Click to View
Kernel version 2.4.26-ow3
Machine Type i686
Apache version 1.3.33 (Unix)
PERL version 5.8.0
Path to PERL /usr/bin/perl
Path to sendmail /usr/sbin/sendmail
Installed Perl Modules Click to View
PHP version 4.3.10
MySQL version 4.0.22-standard
cPanel Build 10.0.0-RELEASE 7
Theme cPanel X v2.5.0
Documentation Click to View
--------------------------------

If so, do you have SSH ability?

Nope, sorry I don't, wish I did I really miss having it.

What ftp daemon are they running?

I don't know, but will find out.

I'd ask them about ftp daemon timeout settings - make sure they are not set too low

I will ask them, they are usually real good about helping me out since I am reselling their hosting service.

Thanks for the help.
Eagle

[webyourbusiness]

we'll it's good to see they have updated the php on the box - you might have a switched on host here!

Let's hope so...

[EaglesNest]

ok - those traces look fine...

Is this a *nix box?

If so, do you have SSH ability?

What ftp daemon are they running?

If you can ssh to the box - have they penned you in - or can you look around without getting into trouble?

I'd ask them about ftp daemon timeout settings - make sure they are not set too low... if you can look around, check /etc/proftpd.conf

Ok, found out they are using pureFTP and they say they have no timeouts set that would interfere with the transfer. The only thing is that pureFTP is set to disconnect on file or folder creation of more than 2mb in a single file. I have done one thing though that has seemed to help considerably and that is under Advanced|Network Settings|FTP Options I have ticked the Silent Running Enable box, and increased the Max Retries to 5. This has seemed to help a lot. I no longer get disconnects when uploading the store either updating or Full Refresh.

Think maybe I nipped this one.

Thanks
Eagle

[webyourbusiness]

when they say "no ftp timeouts set that would interfere" - Actinic recommended settings are actually kind of high... but as you've overcome it, I guess you're ok.

Those ftp options - I've never seen those NOT greyed out - ie, I've never even seen that screen - I know the button is there, but I guess there is some special set of circumstances that enabled you to get to that screen - I've not worked out what that is though...

[webyourbusiness]

of course, then he clicks on the often mentioned, "used enhanced ftp" check-box, and lo-and-behold... ftp options becomes available!

[EaglesNest]

of course, then he clicks on the often mentioned, "used enhanced ftp" check-box, and lo-and-behold... ftp options becomes available!

and Eagle gives that Benny Hill "of COURSE" look...

;) Eagle

[mike@rfsl]

Hi,

I have been getting problems with timeouts in actinic as well. As the site is set to auto-upload this is a problem for us.

I've tried changing all the settings in actinic but none of them seem to help. I've done a tracert to our site and there are loads of timouts:

C:\Documents and Settings\mh>tracert -w 5000 www.rfsolutions.co.uk

Tracing route to www.rfsolutions.co.uk [213.131.172.45]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.0.0.1
2 19 ms 30 ms 18 ms btdhg419-hg2.ealing.broadband.bt.net [217.47.198.73]
3 22 ms 19 ms 18 ms 217.47.198.2
4 32 ms 31 ms 30 ms 217.47.198.106
5 96 ms 29 ms 20 ms 217.47.201.226
6 218 ms 318 ms 269 ms 217.41.219.5
7 140 ms 138 ms 66 ms 217.41.175.142
8 32 ms 31 ms 76 ms 217.41.219.38
9 36 ms 79 ms 31 ms 217.47.220.106
10 32 ms 22 ms 22 ms core1-pos14-2.bletchley.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.31.97]
11 33 ms 93 ms 34 ms core1-pos13-3.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.196.218]
12 32 ms 33 ms 33 ms transit2-pos5-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.20.154]
13 32 ms 32 ms 22 ms t2c2-p8-0.uk-ilf.eu.bt.net [166.49.168.97]
14 33 ms 32 ms 35 ms t2c1-p8-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net [166.49.208.2]
15 24 ms 32 ms 33 ms t2a4-ge0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net [166.49.135.20]
16 32 ms 32 ms 34 ms 166-49-211-130.eu.bt.net [166.49.211.130]
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 43 ms 29 ms 27 ms delme1.delme.newnet.co.uk [81.3.80.1]
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

C:\Documents and Settings\mh>

Is there anything we can do about these? (I've taken up network problems with BT before and been completely stonewalled)

[webyourbusiness]

ewww.. 30 hops is fairly major - but as you are getting sub 100 ms responses all the way to the point where pings aren't responding, it's difficult to know which that 17th node is - it might be BT, it might be newnet.co.uk - but I'd email the trace to tech-suppt for both companies and ask for comments... SOMEONE has a flaky router it seems...

[webyourbusiness]

doh - 30 is the max hops... ignore my comment about 30 hops, once the timeouts occur, it goes to 30 and then stops...

But...

that bt network is a bit of a mess it seems ... all the majority of the zipping around is inside the bt network, but they are relatively fast hops, so it might be a pain, but they are NOT your problem..

I traced from 3 locations for you:

1. from here - in my office - connection via Yipes.com - a low'ish grade bandwidth aggregator...

[root@gregtest02 root]# traceroute 213.131.172.45
traceroute to 213.131.172.45 (213.131.172.45), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 10.0.0.1 (10.0.0.1) 1.237 ms 1.163 ms 1.113 ms
2 host254.lpbroadband.net (66.54.206.254) 7.150 ms 5.376 ms 4.443 ms
3 lpbroadband.yipes.com (209.213.218.41) 7.766 ms 4.336 ms 4.908 ms
4 66.7.153.30 (66.7.153.30) 4.974 ms 140.614 ms 132.424 ms
5 o1-45s11.ftc029si01.yipes.com (66.7.153.41) 13.139 ms 27.996 ms 4.626 ms
6 o1-29si1.ftc025si01.yipes.com (66.7.153.21) 8.472 ms 9.159 ms 6.028 ms
7 o1-25si1.ftc001bd01.yipes.com (66.7.153.133) 6.851 ms 6.229 ms 24.254 ms
8 ge0-0-0.ftc001jp01.yipes.com (66.7.147.230) 6.429 ms 17.223 ms 7.836 ms
9 t3-0-2-0.den003jp02.yipes.com (66.7.147.249) 15.703 ms 21.390 ms 16.429 ms
10 dnvrco1wcx2-gige0-0.wcg.net (64.200.108.77) 6.540 ms 7.280 ms 7.659 ms
11 dnvrco1wcx3-pos6-0-oc192.wcg.net (64.200.106.38) 18.335 ms 10.896 ms 7.130 ms
12 brvwil1wcx3-pos2-0-oc192.wcg.net (64.200.240.122) 34.097 ms 29.781 ms 46.994 ms
13 hrndva1wcx2-pos9-0-oc192.wcg.net (64.200.249.17) 155.778 ms 73.179 ms 47.510 ms
14 washdc5lcx1-pos11-0.wcg.net (64.200.89.70) 49.233 ms 68.148 ms 47.882 ms
15 sl-st20-ash-14-2.sprintlink.net (144.223.24.185) 48.309 ms 48.288 ms 68.791 ms
16 sl-st21-ash-12-0.sprintlink.net (144.232.19.241) 47.973 ms 72.217 ms 78.902 ms
17 sl-franc2-7-0.sprintlink.net (144.223.246.22) 51.971 ms 49.841 ms 53.317 ms
18 po6-0.loncr3.London.opentransit.net (193.251.240.181) 120.898 ms 118.194 ms 118.169 ms
19 193.251.249.99 (193.251.249.99) 118.089 ms 142.822 ms 132.967 ms
20 delme1.delme.newnet.co.uk (81.3.80.1) 125.181 ms 124.735 ms 129.920 ms
21 * * *
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *

from Boulder, CO - using Internap - it's another aggregator of bandwidth, but a much higher quality service than we run our office on:

[root /root]# traceroute 213.131.172.45
traceroute to 213.131.172.45 (213.131.172.45), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 10.1.45.2 (10.1.45.2) 0.974 ms 0.851 ms 0.855 ms
2 7206p.earthnet.net (66.151.173.41) 0.464 ms 0.465 ms 0.432 ms
3 border3.s7-5.earthnet-3.den.pnap.net (63.251.181.185) 2.801 ms 2.534 ms 2.249 ms
4 core3.ge2-0-bbnet1.den.pnap.net (216.52.40.3) 2.191 ms 1.918 ms 2.618 ms
5 so-4-1.hsa2.Denver1.Level3.net (64.156.40.65) 32.534 ms 32.386 ms 32.040 ms
6 4.68.112.161 (4.68.112.161) 32.339 ms 32.485 ms 32.592 ms
7 ae-1-0.bbr2.London1.Level3.net (212.187.128.57) 114.440 ms as-0-0.bbr1.London1.Level3.net (4.68.128.109) 114.014 ms ae-1-0.bbr2.London1.Level3.net (212.187.128.57) 114.563 ms
8 ge-10-0.ipcolo1.London1.Level3.net (212.187.131.7) 114.730 ms ge-11-0.ipcolo1.London1.Level3.net (212.187.131.39) 115.255 ms ge-10-0.ipcolo1.London1.Level3.net (212.187.131.7) 114.506 ms
9 217.163.4.35 (217.163.4.35) 116.980 ms 115.182 ms 114.916 ms
10 delme1.delme.newnet.co.uk (81.3.80.1) 119.994 ms 120.779 ms 118.321 ms
11 * * *
12 * * *
13 * * *
14 * * *
15 * * *
16 * * *
17 * * *
18 * * *
19 * * *
20 * * *
21 * * *
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *


and finally, from Equinix, Chicagao - where the bandwidth is El-primo - this is an INCREDIBLY well connected setup:

[root@web3 acatalog]# traceroute 213.131.172.45
traceroute to 213.131.172.45 (213.131.172.45), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
1 226.216-86-151.nozonenet.com (216.86.151.226) 0.434 ms 0.440 ms 0.327 ms
2 at-0-3-0-32.core1.core2.ord1.nozonenet.com (63.208.72.110) 0.899 ms 0.653
ms 0.682 ms
3 ge-4-0-174.ipcolo2.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.79.66.17) 0.593 ms 0.594 ms 0.5
01 ms
4 * ae-1-51.bbr1.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.68.101.1) 9.107 ms 1.125 ms
5 ae-1-0.bbr1.London1.Level3.net (212.187.128.58) 86.150 ms 86.414 ms as-0-0.bbr2.London1.Level3.net (4.68.128.105) 85.888 ms
6 ge-7-0.ipcolo1.London1.Level3.net (212.187.131.131) 85.730 ms ge-9-0.ipcolo1.London1.Level3.net (212.187.131.147) 86.221 ms 86.143 ms
7 217.163.4.35 (217.163.4.35) 86.448 ms 86.495 ms 86.127 ms
8 delme1.delme.newnet.co.uk (81.3.80.1) 90.836 ms 91.871 ms 93.274 ms
9 * * *
10 * * *
11 * * *
12 * * *
13 * * *
14 * * *
15 * * *
16 * * *
17 * * *
18 * * *
19 * * *
20 * * *
21 * * *
22 * * *
23 * * *
24 * * *
25 * * *
26 * * *
27 * * *
28 * * *
29 * * *
30 * * *
[root@web3 acatalog]#


I'd say that the problems are occuring inside the newnet.co.uk network - but that's just my take... I would also note that Level3 seems to have some issues in London today... yesterday that same router was even worse - but I doubt you would even worry about that for a UK based clientele...