B&M shop...card processing and other matters!

[TraceyHand]

OK, I'm looking to expand Budget Bumps from internet only to a B&M shop locally.
There are no stores in our town selling maternity wear and we have a high pregnancy rate round here SO, I want to cash in (who wouldn't?!!)

I have a merchant account for online processing with Lloyds TSB cardnet and would obviously need a card swipe machine (or chip and pin, I guess nowadays) for the shop
Are Cardnet likely to want me to pay a set-up fee again? Being as I'm an existing customer already?? Or is there a chance they might waiver the set-up cost to keep my business? (otherwise I'll end up shopping around all over again BIG YAWN!!)

Just wondered if anyone had any experience of setting up B&M after the internet?
Just finding premises that haven't been taken up (typically many in the last few weeks!!) is proving hard enough although we have found somewhere we really really love!! Typically just over budget but aint that always the way?

So, any general help/advice on setting up in the "real" world would be great!! Cheers!

[acompton]

Err... I'm confused ... weren't you trying to sell up a few months ago ... or was that someone else?

Don't know anything about setting up a B&M shop (we started our internet business because many of the B&M shops were closing down),
but I can offer a couple of observations:

Obvious point: What's the proximity of the nearest Mothercare?
I've watched several attempts at opening maternity/toddler shops in Cheltenham and they always fail.
I think they have aimed too high, trying to hit a fashion market and choosing a location in the most expensive street.
One that has succeeded is on a main road, but a little out of the way, and not near the High Street.

All the best if you do go ahead.


we have a high pregnancy rate round here

Anybody want to own up to being responsible for this?:D

Alan Compton
www.greenknightgames.co.uk
Great board games and cards games you won't find in the High Street
www.greenknightgames.co.uk/acatalog/GiftTRAP_2.html
GiftTRAP - the ideal Christmas game

[TraceyHand]

Err... I'm confused ... weren't you trying to sell up a few months ago ... or was that someone else?

That was me.... but the circumstances are complicated!


Obvious point: What's the proximity of the nearest Mothercare?

25 miles away... quite considerable. The only other store in our town selling anything baby related is a small but growing independant.

I think they have aimed too high, trying to hit a fashion market and choosing a location in the most expensive street.

Not exactly going to be an issue here due to budget!

One that has succeeded is on a main road, but a little out of the way, and not near the High Street.

Which is quite comparable to the location we're looking at. It's a thoroughfare from Childrens Center/Bus Station and Health Clinic to town centre and we have no competition in the maternity wear market at all. Nearest place selling any is at least 20 miles away.

I'm actually not too concerned from a business POV, it's more the logistics of it that scares me! :eek:

[chris ashdown]

You will be looking at quite a high cost in stock for the shop

You could approach your existing suppliers to see if they would support you with stocks that are not invoiced untill sold by you to help cashflow, in return for better positioning of their stock etc. you never know untill you ask what people will offer to help with.

Mind the lease as a lot of shops have ongoing leases in which you are responcible for rent etc even if your company fails, i.e. be a LTD and dont put your house on the line as you have a track record to use.

Specialist shops off the main centre need an advertising budget to work but generall pay much lower rents, ballance the two after all its numbers through the door that count nothing else

Presentation is everything, if the shop looks like a charity shop you will never make a go of it

[Darren B]

If it is anything like natwest streamline, i can use the same merchant account but would have to pay for the terminal rental or purchase.

I could not comment on Lloyds, i have noticed banks differ ther offerings so you can not compare as you get the answer "we do this aswell so its not the same"

Good Luck though, considering the same thing in my area aswell so would like to be kept informed (not maternity wear)

Darren

[buspassjohn]

In a word, DON'T.
Add up the start up costs, stock, overheads, staff, etc., etc., then look what you could do with your website with the same investment.
What is you catchment for a B & M store, 100,000?
What is your catchment for a fully promoted Website, 26 million?
Keep your money or spend it on your site, No shoplifters, No ruined stock, No aggressive stroppy customers, I could go on but having spent 26 years with a B & M store I'm just a touch jaded.

[RuralWeb]

look what you could do with your website with the same investment. I have to agree - I am amazed at the number of people who will spend a fortune on a B&B shop every month and yet penny pinch on thier website. Not refering to you specifically Tracy so no offence intended.

[leehack]

I would agree with the above sentiments, i have not set up a B&M myself, however one of my best mates has and you will be amazed at the associated costs. There is only one sector growing in retail and that is the internet - period.

My mate pays around 7k a year for a non prime location in leasing and then has the associated costs of insurance, staff, rates, utilities, alarms, security, tills, card machines, pc's and worst of all - has to deal face to face with the general public.

12 months ago he had a 4lb lump hammer put over his head for making too much noise at 4pm in the afternoon. His head was split open and the guy was going to go for him again, had i not managed to stop him. To see a man yield a lump hammer for no reasonable reason is frightening. I had this guy in a bear hug with a lump hammer in his hand with my mates blood all over it. All this while my mate is blacking out in pain on the floor.

A few months ago, a group of 4 guys seemed to think that it's ok to walk in cause trouble and steal things. The door to the shop now has to be locked and each visitor has to be buzzed in. He has also had to install CCTV which is close on 2k.

It is probably pertinent to add here, that the area is not the greatest, but it is not bronx style by any means and is a really busy area. Supermarket and post office next door, off licence over the road, schools all over the place, main centre half a mile away, police station 200 yards away, busy road with buses every 10 minutes or so, many other shops around and a general hive of activity. At the time he was attacked he had a new born girl (2 months old) and when he leaves his shop on a night time he is never sure that he is safe. The threat of break-ins is always there (although your lines may be a little less desirable for the common thief).

Tracey i could go on for ages, however if you have your heart set on it, then you will ignore all of us anyway. I can almost guarantee that in 2 years time you will look back and go, why oh why didn't i listen. You cannot under any circumstances open a B&M on a tight budget and succeed.

Invest the money online as everybody is telling you too, owning a shop and the associated overheads is something you will be doing until you are 65, whereas with the internet, you might just be able to retire a little earlier.

Incidentally, my mate (until recently) was with Cardnet and banked with Lloyds TSB also. He recently changed banks (Alliance & Leicester from memory) and has saved quite a bit on charges. He also got a call off them selling their card machine services, which are substantially cheaper than the Cardnet, which he is moving over to very shortly. He uses the card machine in the shop to process all of his internet transactions.

[Miranda Stamp]

Tracey you're not selling high value desirable electrical goods, tobacco, booze or anything eminently nickable or worth much unless you're pregnant, I think you are doing just the right thing for *your* business here - it's outgrown your house, you need somewhere for the stock, and, shop permises in your locality are VERY cheap compared to down here (looking at over 30K per year here incl rates, just not sustainable), so why not move to a shop/warehouse with a shopfront AND very good footfall. Wish I could do the same here, OK I'm in cheap premises but they are NOT suitable for public access and when you consider every visitor we get spends 3-4 x the ££ they do online and usually comes back again, I think we'd gain if we could have customers passing and coming in off the street, particularly if they could walk past between in a town centre (even more than the 30K round here!)..plus it's a well known fact that pregnant women have nothing to wear and want to spend money!

Anyhow I think you need to look to joining the British Shopkeepers Association or whatever they are called, not sure of the correct name / website but someone may tell me what their real name is but they do have cheap rates for pdq machines and deals on other equipment that will help you.

Good luck, don't listen to the others do what you feel is right.

[Duncan Allan]

In a word, DON'T.
Add up the start up costs, stock, overheads, staff, etc., etc., then look what you could do with your website with the same investment.
What is you catchment for a B & M store, 100,000?
What is your catchment for a fully promoted Website, 26 million?
Keep your money or spend it on your site, No shoplifters, No ruined stock, No aggressive stroppy customers, I could go on but having spent 26 years with a B & M store I'm just a touch jaded.


Having been in retail since 1971 and with my own stores since '83 to having three retails shops in fairly affluent areas the word is DON'T DO IT!!!!

For all the reasons John has stated and more. You will waste your time sitting around being pestered by transient people, 'Just getting ideas' and go mental when you hear the same lame excuses of why someone can't find something.

Then the charity shops turning themselves into retail outlets in prime positions using the good causes card and free labour to do you out of business too.
The whole retail market let's face it is dominated by those who have a very deep pockets who can ride the peaks and troughs of the business cycle and can get differential pricing through their stores across their market reach. They also have sophisticated websites too.

If your life is as complicated like mine then I'd suggest getting a tiny box shop that is open on very odd times that is really a showcase for what you do and plaster it with your web address and allow customers to collect their orders from it.
Then you can sell the business with a small retail outlet as a going concern and move on.
I've been tempted to do this myself as I would love to go back to Sydney.:)

Duncan

[Duncan Allan]

[QUOTE=Miranda Stamp]Tracey you're not selling high value desirable electrical goods, tobacco, booze or anything eminently nick-able or worth much unless you're pregnant money! QUOTE]

One of the worst offenders were pregnant women nicking stock would you believe it. Lots of places to hide items and those with 4x4 buggies that blocked the flow of customers and the unruly children damaging the stock.

Mothers were the worst as they are so overprotective and can't see what the kids are doing as they have [biologically] detuned to the reality of what's happening.

What may be acceptable at home is not acceptable in the shops. Some of my good customers were in despair at the attitude of some mother's when I had to say something to stop my shop and stock from being ruined. Belligerent and rude has been my experience and something I most certainly would not want to go back to. I do not miss the abuse and the attacks. The laws do not allow me to touch or apprehend anyone and so they run away with only the CCTV to show for it and the police are too busy to catch them for my large loss but small fry to them.

To explain my rationale in full in this forum or even to write it in an email would be long and unproductive but believe me when I say that it is a real mine field in today's retail market. Not worth the set up costs that's for sure.

Duncan

[george]

Worth having a look at the Federation of Small Businesses for a card machine deal or discount. When we set up in 2000 their £70 joining fee allowed us to waver the £120 set up fee from Streamline.

One idea to consider is an industrial unit. They usually have an office already and you can partition it so Mrs Bump can have a look at your display area and you can still have racking etc (hidden) for economical storage of products.

You will lose out on passing trade like a conventional shop, but will gain in the fact that almost everyone who visits will be genuinely interested in your shop. Mrs Bump's meet up and stuff so word would get around I'm sure.

I can assure you that running a shop yourself AND trying to keep up with orders from your website can be frustrating. You can spend 90 minutes listening to how good your shop is and how the areas been crying out for it only for Mrs Timewaster to leave without spending. In that time you could have packed and processed the previous night/days orders.

As a male I think I'd rather buy sprog goods in a real shop than online. But thats just my opinion.

Good Luck Tattoo Lady, and if you need any other opinions just ask (aye, right lol).

[TraceyHand]

As a male I think I'd rather buy sprog goods in a real shop than online. But thats just my opinion.

And, as a female, I agree. I like to see/feel clothing when I'm buying it and I rarely if ever buy clothing online for me or the boys.

Good Luck Tattoo Lady, and if you need any other opinions just ask (aye, right lol).

:p

[Miranda Stamp]

I think though I'm party to a lot more information than you lot of discouraging people! I've spoken to Tracey about this in a bit more detail. Where her shop is (the one she has in mind) is a good size PLUS has about 1200 sq ft of storage, so she can get all her stuff out of the house into business premises that has a shop front and that happens to have good footfall past, AND at a very very reasonable price - only a couple of hundred ££ more per month than I pay down here (Berkshire) for less than 1/3 of the potential space in a shared premises with no front door of our own (visitors to us have to walk through a machine tool shop to get to our unit, the swarf from the floor walks into our doormat and I shudder every time another 'I just called in because I wanted to see what you sell' turns up with bump + bored & barefoot toddler in pushchair they want to let out of the chair after 2 minutes...NOT practical for visitors!). My next move (our cheap premises are short lease as they're due for redevelopment in the next 3-5 years) has to be to a unit with a suitable showroom area. I'm looking at having to afford 3x the rent or more.

Just the area I'm in. Wish I was in an area like Tracey's. I see Tracey's solution as a practical one to get her stock and business out of her house into suitable premises that happen to be on a busy thoroughfare to gain extra business through a B&M shop.

[Duncan Allan]

I agree with you Miranda it is a decision that is based on the need and requirements of the business. However the down sides weigh heavy on the whole enterprise.
If, as I suggested it was a means to an ends so that if it pays then keep going or that it was to set it up to sell it on then fine.

I, like several others have very jaded and jaundiced points of view from the experiences we have had in the past.
I've always found that as soon as you get ahead of yourself the rents and rates up your overheads again and your back to square one. Unless of course you have the freehold.

Duncan

[Miranda Stamp]

Wish I had 3/4 million £ as the location I'd like for my business is up for sale at the moment.
But if I did have that sort of money, I don't think I'd be looking at buying it, I'd be doing something else!

I am going to have a real problem finding something locally once the current premises cease. I will soon have to make the decision to sell, to turn the business into a proper full time business (we all work part time hours to suit the kids) and increase the turnover & profit, or to gamble on finding another really good cheap location - this one is in walking distance of home/school for us, and is big enough and very very cheap compared to the rest of the area.

[leehack]

Miranda

If you disagree with what most of us are saying, that's fine, but at least do it with a sense of reality - don't turn the debate into a male vs female issue. This forum is for discussing and looking at things from a number of different angles. Tracey can read and take on board what she wants to and make an informed decision. You can almost guarantee that whatever she reads here will not make any difference.

You talk about cheap premises and more room etc. however at the moment premises cost Tracey NOTHING as she already has them. Add somewhere between 20-30k (maybe more) extra needed per year to maintain a shop and you can get a sense of reality on how much better the business will need to do. Whats your average spend Tracey? How many customers will you need per day? How much you need to make each day? These figures will be frightening i assure you.

"think though I'm party to a lot more information than you lot" - this did make me laugh Miranda as if you are in the trenches helping Tracey fight off the evil dwarves as they try and give a big dose of reality. So you know the rent and you know the size of the place. Frankly, the smaller the place the better, it is always surprising how much you need to have in a shop to make it look full.

There is no room for sentiment or "you go girl". Tracey could make a decision here that could affect the rest of her life and really screw it all up.

Tracey if you go ahead, i genuinely wish you the very best of luck, i love to hear success stories, especially when against the odds. Just please make sure that the decisions to do this are all the correct ones, thoughts such as below (although nice) are not a good basis:

"ooooh a shop of my own"
"thank God, i can get some of my house back, too much stuff everywhere"
"it will be great seeing people face to face"

Good luck

PS - step away from the railings!

[TraceyHand]

. however at the moment premises cost Tracey NOTHING as she already has them.

This may be finacially true but not entirely accurate in other ways.

I am taking on board everything everyone says (and believe me it's caused me some sleepless nights of late!)
Miranda is party to some more personal information that is affecting this decision (and isn't suitable for discussion on a public forum) and it boils down to the fact that, one way or another, I *have* to move the business OUT of the house.

Where that goes, we'll see

[leehack]

Whatever happens Tracey and whatever you choose to do, i wish you the very best of luck. Please make sure that all decisions you make regarding this are based purely on business issues and reasons and you won't go far wrong.

[TraceyHand]

well certainly my reasons for choosing a shop over office/mail order space are very much business based
The 500sq ft shop (with considerable ail order processing room and storage) we're looking at is cheap for its location and size and we'd struggle to find suitable office space locally for much less so it seems sensible to bring in the customers at the same time.
I'm aware of the pitfalls etc (as everyone has been all too ready to warn me!) but I'm also aware of the potential......

[Miranda Stamp]

Miranda

If you disagree with what most of us are saying, that's fine, but at least do it with a sense of reality - don't turn the debate into a male vs female issue. This forum is for discussing and looking at things from a number of different angles.

I'm sorry if my thoughts upset you, but when did I play the gender card?

Tracey actually only came to ask advice about pdq machines. (I think, reading her post, she's already made the decision to move her business out of her home one way or another)

So back to the point:
I thought the British Retail Consortium might help http://www.brc.org.uk/defaultnew.asp . I also wonder if the BPA (Baby Products Association) might have something? I would suggest also to drop into WHS and pick up a copy of The Grocer and see if there are any small adverts there that are relevant.