Go Away you snotty beggar!

[jont]

Customer ordered a personalised product 5 days before the event.

The supplied artwork was corrupted - they were emailed the same day and asked to attach to an email (the website also asks users to check uploaded artwork for validity) - this was resent as some bizarre Yahoo attachment which needed Yahoo account to open - asked them again to attach to another email and a basic attachment. They sent the following day (a Sunday) and a proof of design returned.

Approval was given with a snotty reply along the lines of and quote

"John, You do realize that this gift was supposed to be there the first of March and was supposed to be a birthday present...I have never seen such slow service on anything I have ordered before and I am 60 years old!

PLEASE use this picture and get it done fast
THANKS Mrs XXX"

Saturday to Monday to get proof out and would still have been delivered in time (we use a next working day service with APC) is by any stretch of the imagination fairly quick - especially as a personalised gift. We clearly state 5 working days for delivery (all artwork is created and set individually).

It was the inclusion of her age (totally unnecessary) and the "get it done fast" .. even allowing for the American - English language barrier is it just me or is this unacceptable behaviour?

I know I should not get rankled by customers and wondered how the rest of you would have responded to her email? ... not that I am now regretting hitting "send" to the reply I did and it duly leaving the server :o

[Mike Hughes]

In the words of Rudyard Kipling:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
.....


Mike

[acompton]

I'd have been pretty annoyed at this, but I would have tried to pen a polite reply (not sure I would have succeeded)

This tale serves to remind me how lucky I've been with customers so far. They have always been pleasant and polite. Sometimes they are formal and direct, but never rude. Some of the younger customers expect everything to turn up on their doorstep the next morning (even when they haven't paid for that service), but most people are amazed that the goods arrive quickly.

I guess I just haven't dealt with enough of the great unwashed yet - or anyone that's aged 60!

I'm impressed by your stoicism in the face of extreme provocation. I'd like to have seen your reply.

Alan

[george]

Jont, I'm afraid we need to see your reply... TODAY! :D

[Darren B]

John

I take my hat off, i am dealing with a guy demanding a full refund for items returned to me not collected from the post office, even though i have supplied him with the tracking number, told him were to collect it 3 times. it still got returned and he told me to send it again or give him a full refund as "at law" i am not allowed to deduct the postage charges.

I have written him a nice email and it is sitting in my draft box, still pondering what action to take. He has said that he will issue a charge back, if i want to be bloody minded and decided to let him do his charge back as it will take him longer to get his money, would i get any bad rating from the credit card company?

Does anyone know if i can legaly deduct the charges, i have calmed down a bit since his email and almost but not quite refunded him. But i certainly am not going to send the goods again

Darren

[george]

John

I take my hat off, i am dealing with a guy demanding a full refund for items returned to me not collected from the post office, even though i have supplied him with the tracking number, told him were to collect it 3 times. it still got returned and he told me to send it again or give him a full refund as "at law" i am not allowed to deduct the postage charges.

I have written him a nice email and it is sitting in my draft box, still pondering what action to take. He has said that he will issue a charge back, if i want to be bloody minded and decided to let him do his charge back as it will take him longer to get his money, would i get any bad rating from the credit card company?

Does anyone know if i can legaly deduct the charges, i have calmed down a bit since his email and almost but not quite refunded him. But i certainly am not going to send the goods again

Darren

Just leave it Darren. Let him do the chargeback thing. And delete any orders he places in future. If he can't be *rsed to go to the sorting office...

[leehack]

Jont

She left things til the last moment and then she is trying to vent this guilt she feels herself, onto somebody else. If the guy is 60 and its for an upcoming party, it's not rocket science to work out she should have sorted this out a few weeks ago. The world is full of these idiots, who have to panic and do things at the last minute to make them feel alive.

Bite your lip, be polite, cos at the end of the day a ridiculous womans money is as good as anyone elses.

Darren

I would change your terms and conditions to state that if a customer does not make a reasonable effort to collect any parcels that not could be delivered due to the house being empty, that they are welcome to a refund for the purchase price, however shipping charges will not be refunded under any circumstances.

[jont]

Jont, I'm afraid we need to see your reply... TODAY! :D

Probably not wise to post the actual reply (not heard back yet as they are in the USA and probably still asleep).

I essentially outlined the time frame of events (all in uppercase as she replied back in size 18 to make her point), pointed out that people tend to order for known date events much further in advance (despite us being able to fulfill in time) and at the end told her we could have met her deadline but I was concerned further issues would arise following the tone of her aggressive email and "regrettably" would not be able to fulfill the order. No payment had been taken so nothing to refund - I even let her off the design costs for the personalised work undertaken so far. How nice was that of me?

I am generally the mild-mannered-janitor type but something about her last email tipped me over the edge. Yes. I am a bad man and will probably go to jail for contravention of the Old Peoples Online Sales Act 1634

[jont]

Bite your lip, be polite, cos at the end of the day a ridiculous womans money is as good as anyone elses.

I tried, but at £35.00 and with the margins involved there is only so much it is possible to take ... I could tell there would then be a follow up complaining it was delivered by a man with a goatee beard and demanding it be done free of charge or [insert international hit squad] will kill me and all my family (and their neighbours.

[george]

Goat Point to Jont for p*ss*ing off The Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe. Incredible story.

[chris ashdown]

When I started my first company i tried to pacify every customer and bent over backwards thinking that they would pass on the good work even if it cost me, no doubts about missing items or goods not delivered etc.. I went bust and just managed to get out with the house

This time I hope to please all my customers but realise i can never please them all all of the time, I keep a much tighter hold on my money and we somehow manage to keep growing

We try but now know when to call it quits on the akward customers

You did the right think Jonty, if you had done the first image she would have complained it was poor quality and asked for a refund, and probably the same if she did not get it on time as she was out at delivery time (your fault)

[completerookie]

and I am 60 years old!
one word of caution, hopefully, we all plan to be that old some day, some, of course are closer to that time than others. - I just hoping that the "Microsoft Thought Transference PC" will be on the shelves by then and that old idea of putting fingers to keyboards to complain will be a thing of the past.

[brian.mc]

I think you did the right thing Jont. When you get a feeling you just can't please someone, no matter how hard you try, it's best to give up and let someone else take on the hassle. That way you might just get to see 60 yourself one day.

I agree with the way you responded to her as well. People like her are basically no better than bullies and if enough people stand up to them and let them know their attitude and behaviour are unacceptable they may eventually mend their ways.

[NormanRouxel]

I owned a sports shop some time ago and the staff were expected to operate under "the customer is always right" principle. Except they were also allowed to make an exception when someone completely unreasonable was shopping (about once a month if I remember right).

One irate lady left saying "I've never been so insulted in my life" The assistants parting response was simply "come back tomorrow when we've had time to think up a better one".

Result - happy staff who know that they don't have to take too much nonsense and a few troublesome customers who'll never bother us again.

[jont]

staff who know that they don't have to take too much nonsense

Autonomy is one of the greatest features of my job.

Received a lovely response this morning:

"I am sorry...I saw the picture on your site before I left it and presumed it had been uploaded.

I hope you understand my frustratation [sic] and needing to vent.

I now realize that is wasn't your fault...NEVER have I had trouble with someone opening my yahoo pictures and I send all over the world even Russia. I will use you again but if it is too much trouble to send the bottle
that is ok too!

SORRY there was a problem between us...I wasn't MAD just frustrated!"

.. I particularly like the "even Russia" part :)

A most unexpected result ... I stood my ground and the customer was understanding. Must be a first :)

And yes - I will now be sending her item.

[Jan]

ahhhh, that's better, I like a happy ending.

Regards,

[brian.mc]

A most unexpected result ... I stood my ground and the customer was understanding. Must be a first :)
That's been my experience in the past. If the situation is explained to them politely, but firmly, most reasonable people will calm down and realise they were wrong in their original approach.

[leehack]

Fair play to her for that, there are very few genuinely rude people in the world, the fact they are communicating via email or by telephone usually means they speak in a way they would not if face to face.

Nice one Jont - nice ending.

[Buzby]

We currently have a complaint going through at the moment.

Customer orders in one name and ships to a different name and delivery address. We assume this is a gift and forward an invoice to the invoice address.

The recipient of the gift opens the invoice at the invoice address although it is not addressed to them and sees that it is an item of jewellery that was going to be a present for them.

Client says we have ruined the most important day of her life as this item was going to be an engagement ring and is now seeking financial compensation from us for the tears that she has shed over this and the loss of that special day.

Incidentally the young lady (our client) has since changed her surname and address so we can only assume that she was premureturely using her partners surname and the surprise of the engagement ring didn’t go down very well.

Client is now threatening to report us to trading standards for ruining her surprise.

[fleetwood]

We no longer deal with America.
I know sweeping generalisations are wrong, but I'd estimate that over half of ALL orders we received from there (when we were accepting them) caused trouble - totally unreasonable requests or complaints, threats, obscenities and selfish actions (placing special requests, then changing or cancelling).
The most stupid aspect of it all - 99% of all goods we sell are imported from the USA!!

I once had a guy place a large order from the US, then email me (luckily before the goods had been despatched), calling me all sorts of names, and blaming me for his credit card going into the red! All we had done was charge for the goods he ordered, at the price he was quoted. No delay, no excess postage!!

[brian.mc]

The recipient of the gift opens the invoice at the invoice address although it is not addressed to them and sees that it is an item of jewellery that was going to be a present for them.

Client says we have ruined the most important day of her life as this item was going to be an engagement ring and is now seeking financial compensation from us for the tears that she has shed over this and the loss of that special day.Client is now threatening to report us to trading standards for ruining her surprise.
I don't think you have done anything wrong here. Point out to her that it is an offence to open mail addressed to someone else without their permission. If she and her partner are in the habit of opening each other's mail then she should have anticipated that this might happen.

[george]

We currently have a complaint going through at the moment.

Customer orders in one name and ships to a different name and delivery address. We assume this is a gift and forward an invoice to the invoice address.

The recipient of the gift opens the invoice at the invoice address although it is not addressed to them and sees that it is an item of jewellery that was going to be a present for them.

Client says we have ruined the most important day of her life as this item was going to be an engagement ring and is now seeking financial compensation from us for the tears that she has shed over this and the loss of that special day.

Incidentally the young lady (our client) has since changed her surname and address so we can only assume that she was premureturely using her partners surname and the surprise of the engagement ring didn’t go down very well.

Client is now threatening to report us to trading standards for ruining her surprise.

I give it two years max. :D

PS: How could you possibly have handled it any different?

PPS: "opens the invoice at the invoice address although it is not addressed to them"..... *puts tongue behind lower lip* Doh!

[pnagames]

We currently have a complaint going through at the moment.

Customer orders in one name and ships to a different name and delivery address. We assume this is a gift and forward an invoice to the invoice address.

The recipient of the gift opens the invoice at the invoice address although it is not addressed to them and sees that it is an item of jewellery that was going to be a present for them.

Client says we have ruined the most important day of her life as this item was going to be an engagement ring and is now seeking financial compensation from us for the tears that she has shed over this and the loss of that special day.

Incidentally the young lady (our client) has since changed her surname and address so we can only assume that she was premureturely using her partners surname and the surprise of the engagement ring didn’t go down very well.

Client is now threatening to report us to trading standards for ruining her surprise.

explain that you have performed ALL your legal duties.

if it was me a "pissed off" day i would just email her back saying :"be my guest and take us to trading standards but if we have to use a lawyer we will invoice you the legal costs as soon as we win this case (and we know taht we will win because we have operated within the Legal framework".

(then ofcourse i would not hit the send button since i would have second thoughts.)

[Buzby]

We have basically refused to accept responsibility or even apologise for the situation as we also feel that everything that we have done is legal and correct.

We have also refused any refund or compensation as I would rather spend money digging my heels in than to give in and open the flood gates for all the people that she would tell.

We have now advised her that we are unable to continue with her complaint and have given her the contact details for Safebuy.

We hardly ever receive complaints and this is the first that we have not been able to resolve a problem with a client.

[george]

Just had a thought Jason, are you members of the FSB?

[Buzby]

No i'm not but it is something that I have been considering.

[Darren B]

Just leave it Darren. Let him do the chargeback thing. And delete any orders he places in future. If he can't be *rsed to go to the sorting office...


I have almost forgotten, i have not heard anything from the guy and shall let the charge back take it course, it means i will be out of pocket for the delivery but hey i get a few quids worth of satisfaction knowing he's got to do the running around.

I know not the right attitude but these people really get to me, short of going and getting it and hand delivering it i do not know what more i could do.

Cheers
Darren

[bentleybloke]

Darren,

I had exactly the same problem with something I sent to London and sympathise totally. The customer requested special delivery on an item over 2kg (so that's 19 quid) and ordered late on in the day. I run around like a blue arsed fly to get it upto the GPO to dispatch it.

A month later the box is back on my doorstep following a failed delivery attempt, I'd not heard from the customer at all so assumed all was well! I write to the customer at his invoice and billing addresses, no response. Two weeks later the chargeback letter comes from Barclaycard Merchant Services. I phone them up and the SOB has signed the paperwork to say that he didn't auth the transaction.

I phone BMS and they were increadably helpful although the couldn't do anything because I had got the goods back. I just ended up 19 quid down on the shipping.

As a result I've disabled Special Delivery to UK mainland and just have it as an option for Highlands and UK off-shore. It's not so bad being 5 quid down for Parcelforce.

Having said that, with the lack of communication from the customer I suspected it was fraudulent and the transaction also set off alarm bells when I processed it too. So maybe not such a bad outcome :-)

[george]

Try comparing that to supplying a (geniune) company with over two and a half grands worth of stuff, them paying by credit card, then them going bust a week or so later.


*takes deep breath, then dreads the postie for the next few months* :eek:

[bentleybloke]

We've been given bouncy cheques for upto 2k, but we now don't accept cheques over 500 or credit cards over 1000 unless the card holder is present and it's chip and pin. Anyone remotely suspect is now asked to bring cash and mail order over 1k is direct bank transfer we then move it into another account as soon as it is credited. International mail order is bank transfer over 500 in Europe or over 100 for rest of World. If the customer is uncooperative they're probably fraudulent or a troublemaker so no great loss.

Luckily, a lot of the stuff I sell can't be easily sourced at the same price elsewhere or as quickly.

them paying by credit card, then them going bust a week or so later.


Think that may be the card issuer's problem rather than yours? Have you contacted the FSB? They'll be able to give you expert advice.

[Darren B]

George do not worry, providing you were not involved in the transaction to the extent that you new they would go bust you will not have to worry.

As Johnathan said it's the credit card issuers problem. This is the only time the banks cant claim the money back, they agreed to issue the business with a credit card and as such are responsible if the debt is not paid. Same as if someone ran off without paying the debt they cant come back to you.

Darren,

I had exactly the same problem with something I sent to London and sympathise totally Still waiting to here and to be honest i really can not care, it annoyed me then worried me that someone would try and cheat me this way because of there own laziness and now i think sod it i am not going to run around and let then take the P*** out of me.

When I started my first company i tried to pacify every customer and bent over backwards thinking that they would pass on the good work even if it cost me, no doubts about missing items or goods not delivered etc.. I went bust and just managed to get out with the house I think Chris's comment help me make a decision that i would normally not do.

I have had a young lady be very patient, she brought a kite for her brother and had a few problems with it, they actually lost a piece of shock coord that holds the lower spreaders in place, but i did not argue and ordered her a new set, for the cost of a couple of quid. I take it everything is OK as i have not heard from her since.

Anyway it's friday, off to the pub then out for a curry tonight, got work in the morning - that will be good :rolleyes:

Cheers
Darren

[wfl]

The customer may always be right, except when they are wrong, but we are entitled to be treated just as courteously as they are.

What is more however much they spent they only bought a product and not the whole business.

It annoys the hell out of me when people are rude or aggressive towards us and yes we do sometimes react. We will always support our staff in this respect.

It annoys me even more when people try to take the p**s out of us. They often find that we can be stubborn.

[pinbrook]

PNAgames solution is the one I tend to adopt, you vent your frustrations and write a very snotty response, and don't send it.

you then take a breath, and an hours break, and write a very polite but firm no nonsense reply

[jont]

write a very snotty response, and don't send it.

How big is the folder with the non-sent letter? Or do you have a ceremonial burning once a year :)

[Darren B]

Probably quite big at the moment :D

Jo go's up to the mores and performs and acient sacrafic but uses them instead of goats.

Darren

[jont]

ancient sacrifice but uses them instead of goats.

See... I have no need to confirm or deny rumours about the wellbeing of the goat ........ unless .......they are being used as the goat is not available for the sacrifice :confused:

[Darren B]

next you be asking for a soliciter to be present?????

[leehack]

next you be asking for a soliciter to be present?????

Can goats spell any better than Darren?

[Darren B]

Lee i see no point in spelling the names of money grabbing vermin correctly ;)

[george]

We no longer deal with America.
I know sweeping generalisations are wrong, but I'd estimate that over half of ALL orders we received from there (when we were accepting them) caused trouble - totally unreasonable requests or complaints, threats, obscenities and selfish actions (placing special requests, then changing or cancelling).


We have a lot of customers in America and no way would we consider not sending stuff there. As you know Martin we've discussed this in the past. However, check this recent email from a customer.

" I would like to APOLOGIZE for the return of the (66) football scarves! I ended up in the hospital for 2.5 weeks. During that time the scarves arrived. I had two friends checking my mail while I was in the hospital. Unfortunately, they both dropped the ball by not going to the local post office to pick up the package that you had shipped. I went to pick it up on Tuesday(March 6th.) only to find out it had been sent back to you after sitting in the post office for 20 days. Again, I am very sorry about this!! I would like to have those same scarves sent back to me as soon as you are able. I certainly WILL pay to have the scarves reshipped and what ever other charges there may be. I authorize you to charge that cost to the same credit card I used for the original costs. If I need to refill out an order/charge form, please let me know. I really do want those scarves and I promise you that the same mix up will NOT occur again!!"

And the shipping cost that he's keen to pay again? £120 via RM International Datapost. :eek:

[fleetwood]

George

I think it has to do with the product range/customer base.

Comics - typically easily available in America / buyer typically teen (in UK, buyers of same material tend to be older) / stock comes to us FROM America, so is always going to more expensive when we ship it back there

Football stuff - typically not available in America - less price competition - and I'm guessing that your customer base there (esp those ordering 60+ scarves), are not teen.

Yes, mine was a sweeping generalisation - but has been my experience, based on a large number of bad orders, not just one customer.

I'm glad to hear that you are finding US trade profitable.