New PC OS Query

[los_design]

Hi Guys

Just out of interest, we are about to invest in some new desktop pc's.

Our current network bank are all on XP Pro. I am still reluctant to go down the Vista Business route due to some concerns read online in the press etc.

Anyone out there got networked pcs working fine with XP Pro and Vista business?

Anyone got any strong views either way?

Regards and thanks in advance...

[gabrielcrowe]

please, for the sanity of you and your loved ones, do not buy vista.

there are endless reasons why professional, serious people should not jump on the 'its new and trendy' bandwagon. its a complete mess. let it mature before you purchase.

even better, you could source a *ahem* beta, for testing on a spare comuter. i'm a member of the msdn, and i have every beta since beta 1. they are all wishy washy.

get XP, patched up to sp2, .net 2 and stable hardware and you'll have much less problems.

[acompton]

If you're looking to buy Dells, they only supply with Vista

Alan

[leehack]

XP Pro SP2 without a doubt for the time being, even more so when you find out office 2003 doesn't work with shitsa, along with many other problems. I recently had a system built for me, if you do this you can specify what you want on it.

[los_design]

If you're looking to buy Dells, they only supply with Vista

Alan

Hi Alan

Buy Dells what :D...never touch them mate.

Sounds like my concerns were bang on the money.

Ta guys, XP Pro it is then.

[pnagames]

if you want to spend endless hours on trying to make everything work buy vista.

if you prefer to spend the equivelant time on you business buy the reliable xp pro as specified above (patches etc...)

i have not tried them but everything i heard to date has been a disaster (or pretty much there).

i resist to go along with microsoft's wishes on these things.

[Darren B]

I have to be honest, i have many flavours on my network from 98 to vista.

Vista took me a bit to grasp but it is probably the most reliable version apart from 98. It has taken me a little bit of time to get the hang of it but now i quiet happly browse the network and save files on to other pc's with different flavours of windows.

DELL - i use dell pc's all the time, never had a reliability issue and these are on 10 hours a day 6 days a week some of these have been doing this since 2001 and they are still going. For the money i do not hink you can beat it.

I still never understand why people buy from PCWORLD but we all have our favorites.

What are you really looking for from your new PC and i tell you if i am doing any of it with my current network

Cheers
Darren

[RuralWeb]

DELL - i use dell pc's all the time, never had a reliability issue and these are on 10 hours a day 6 days a week some of these have been doing this since 2001 and they are still going. For the money i do not hink you can beat it. I have to agree here - mine are on almost 24/7 and my second problem in 6 years is being fixed this afternoon on my next business day repair contract.

I would not touch Vista with a barge pole and as DELL are shipping all new PCs with it then I will NOT be buying from them in the near future:mad:

[CymraegKev]

I have to admint that I am using Vista and wouldn't go back to XP for the world. As long as you do a clean install (i.e not ontop of an old beta, or even an upgrade), it seems to be OK.

There are issues with certain software and drivers etc., but then there was when XP was released, as there was when 98 was released etc.

I understand peoples concerns about Vista, and would never suggest to anybody to update their OS if they were not comfortable, but from my trials and testing as long as you have a decent PC (by that I mean made from decent components) and you do a clean install you should be fine.... and a lot safer security wise.

Look and feel apart, it has some very very good features...

Just my opinion [I'll put my tin hat on now] ;-)

Kevin

[los_design]

I have to admint that I am using Vista and wouldn't go back to XP for the world. As long as you do a clean install (i.e not ontop of an old beta, or even an upgrade), it seems to be OK.
Kevin

That comment rings a bell with the V7/v8.04 to 8.5 party ;)

[Stereo Steve]

We are running Vista on a couple machines with no problems. I cannot find a compelling reason yet to upgrade my Vaio from XP Pro though but if I was buying a new one would be happy if it had Vista.

All these comments were made about XP if you remember and now it's the bees knees. It'll take time for Vista to reach the same state but by then, there will be a good many things that require it.

All that said, if I wanted a core business machine to do everything on (our company has more or less a PC for each job) then I would go XP Pro at the moment.

[pinbrook]

Personally I shall stay with XP for a year or so, at least until Vista beds down,

However I've just bought a Vista PC for my sister (home use only) and it looks nice...

but to ensure the smooth running of my business, sadly its XP for a while longer

[Darren B]

Juat to add to my earlier comments

I would not upgrade any of my machines, but have no problems buying vista machines

Darren

[thatscrafty]

I have been thinking of getting a new machine and was considering a Dell - I have had the current dell for a couple of years now with no problems. I have been looking on their site and they do indeed only ship Vista as far as I can tell.

Can you recomend any where/anyone than can build me a machine so I can keep using XP? I would rather get a recomendation for a pc builder than go to PC World or anywhere like that.

Cheers,

Graham

[CymraegKev]

www.cube247.co.uk do fantastic machines at very good prices. I have a few of their machines.

I've not checked if they are still shipping XP though.....

Kevin

[thatscrafty]

Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. I have just emailed them to find out if they do still ship with XP.

[Mike Hughes]

I spoke to Dell on the phone this morning. They do still ship with XP if you want, you just can't order XP online.

Mike

[george]

I spoke to Dell on the phone this morning. They do still ship with XP if you want, you just can't order XP online.

Mike

Its also on their latest flyers, that you can have XP if you require it.


PS I know Dell's been slagged a bit on here but on another forum I frequent there was a lengthy thread discussing said company. One chap is an IT manager for a company with over 450 active pc's. He swears by Dell and says he has very little problems with them.

[RuralWeb]

Its also on their latest flyers, that you can have XP if you require it Good to see that they have seen the light!

[jont]

Anyone tried to install XP onto a machine shipped with Vista? I guess this should be possible .. thinking ahead to if (when) an XP machine dies.

[Duncan Rounding]

The hardware should support both OSs - at least at the moment. If not then MS Virtual PC running XP on a Vista machine should work fine.

The bonus with VPC is that it also allows you to take your 'virtual machine' with you on an external hard drive. I run VPC from an external drive to test different browsers and OSs.

[jont]

Good idea Duncan - cheers

[george]

So... what does Vista do that makes an upgrade/replacement (with all the driver/software uncertainty issues) worthwhile?

[Duncan Rounding]

er...let's think...you get some nice looking updated icons....can't think of much else....oh yes, or course - you also get a nice new pc cos the old one won't run it

[RuralWeb]

you get some nice looking updated icons thats the only difference I can see.

[george]

Phew *wipes brow*, I thought I'd missed something glaringly obvious!

[RuralWeb]

I thought I'd missed something glaringly obviousIts just a money spinner as far as I can see - I was quite happy with windows98. All that happens now is that a new os eats memory for very little if any gain to run the same programes.

[jont]

George - are you not on Windows 3.11 still?

[george]

George - are you not on Windows 3.11 still?

Our main pc is an IBM5100.

http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/ibm/5100brsm.jpg


Not v8/Veesta/IE7 compatable sadly, no surprises there then. :rolleyes:

[jont]

Jammy beggar - I am saving up for that :(

[AndrewPK]

PS I know Dell's been slagged a bit on here but on another forum I frequent there was a lengthy thread discussing said company. One chap is an IT manager for a company with over 450 active pc's. He swears by Dell and says he has very little problems with them.

I think the thing with dell is that its quite fashionable to slag them off currently, in the same way as we all slag of Microsoft even though at a guess i would say 80-90% of us are running a Microsoft OS.

Dell make good computers that do the job they are intended to do and are VERY good machines for an office environment, In fact you would be hard pushed to find better 'office' machines. Where they do fall down however is as games machines, Often dell machines will use on board graphics and such, making them pretty crap at being 'games' machines (*)


Dell are also quite good for software, although they will try and lead you towards Vista, they will supply your computer with pretty much any currently available operating system, they will even supply Linux if you ask them nicely the only thing they wont do is install if for you (they install the operating system and software from a master image, not a manual install) so if you want the non standard OS (IE not Vista) you would need to install it yourself (**)


*this information is based on the 'Pre-Built' systems, obviously the 'design it yourself' systems will have whatever you ask for in them


**This was the case the last time i got involved in the 'dell are crap' argument


Our main pc is an IBM5100.

would it be a bad thing if i said i currently have one of those gathering dust in my attic :eek: No idea if it works (power supply is borked as i recall)


AndrewPK

[CymraegKev]

So... what does Vista do that makes an upgrade/replacement (with all the driver/software uncertainty issues) worthwhile?

The main one is the security. Vista is n times more secure than any other MS operating system, and it's also much more threat resilient to future incoming attacks.

Driving the nice icons (which, incidentally, I hate), you get the WPF, which is a completely new way of delivering graphical Operating Systems and applications (web and client). No more scaling issues with fonts (no jagged edges on a font at 200px), a much crisper and cleaner development environment (leading to faster, more secure applications and websites in the future). The new Yahoo WPF messenger is a classic example of the future of WPF delivered applications.

Much better support for tablet PC's and "swivel" top Laptops, Power Management is greatly improved. SuperFetch technology (google it), Non-reboot updates etc.



There are so many features of Vista that make it better than XP (take a look at this article (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931913,00.asp))...but it all depends on what you want and need now.

Yes, more memory is required, but try running XP SP2 on the same memory that Win95 ran on. Yes, some of the drivers from the vendors do not work, but try using the drivers from Win 95 on Win XP etc.... in fact, the driver issue is mostly the problem of the vendors - the driver SDK for vista has been available to developers for three years... no excuse in my mind for Sony not to have a driver for half of its cameras.

But by far the best bit, is the little Snippit tool, that means screen capture is a ....well, snip! ;-)

Seriously though, it's the future, whether you like it or not. Don't hold out for SP1, because I believe there never will be one... windows update will spit out fixes as and when needed, rather than the Service Pack paradigm.

For me, as a developer and web developer, it's a very exciting operating system.

That said, I can fully understand people's concerns and reluctance to upgrade just yet. It was the same for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 if I remember rightly....

Kevin - right, where is that Tin hat I only just put down?

PS. It's only my opinion, and as I said to my ex-wife "you keep the house, I have the dog, but we'll have to share the Ms Developer Network subscription because it's too bl***dy expensive!"

[Jan]

So... what does Vista do that makes an upgrade/replacement (with all the driver/software uncertainty issues) worthwhile?It gives you spare time, very few of your computer programs will work once you have installed it, thus giving you extra quality time with your family and friemds. (Don't like Vista by the way, it's illogical).

Regards,

[gabrielcrowe]

Anyone tried to install XP onto a machine shipped with Vista? I guess this should be possible .. thinking ahead to if (when) an XP machine dies.

yes, and the only reason it wouldnt ever work is hardware compatibility.

for instance, DX10 graphics adapters.

[gabrielcrowe]

thought:

instead of getting vista for its extra security measures, why not try another approach.

http://www.sandboxie.com

run your browser in a protected sandbox and then empty it at every boot.

vista's big selling point is safety online, obtained in part by the IE7 sandboxed mode, and other daft security countermeasures.

with sandboxie, i can surf crazy websites all day, and fill my screen with toolbars and popups... then i empty the sandbox and *poof*, its all gone without a trace.

this little application really blows all sorts of vistas securty features away, its sort of like, retro-active anti-spyware.

[george]

i can surf crazy websites all day, and fill my screen with toolbars and popups...

lol

*sniggers at the use of `crazy websites`*

[thatscrafty]

We have a Dell now so I ordered a new pc from them with Vista on it and to be fair to them it came withing a week of ordering but thats when the problems started.

I thought that all pcs were tested before they were shipped to make sure that they were ok. The one we were sent couldnt have been because there were several faults/issues with it :mad: . After spending a day on the phone to them trying to sort it out I had enough and asked for a refund which they agreed to.

Now as for Vista I didnt like it at all. What I didnt also realise was that, after ordering a 320G HD and totalling up the partitions on it which only came to 297G, Vista has self test and diagnostics built in which takes up 23G :eek: . So if you order a 320G HD you only get 297G , which includes the OS partition so the space left for data is not as much as I would have liked (personally)

Other views of Vista are I cant see the point of the Aero design windows and the fancy way that the open windows are displayed on the screen - why not just continue using Alt Tab to change between windows.

Overall I was not impressed and will be ordering another pc running XP.

One question: does Actinic run on Linux?

Thats an option I was thinking about so I will start to have a play with Ubuntu or something else

[Duncan Rounding]

...
One question: does Actinic run on Linux?

Thats an option I was thinking about so I will start to have a play with Ubuntu or something else


Actinic only runs on windows.

We also always use Dell machines and have for quite a few years. On the rare occasions that we have had a problem it's always beed sorted out quickly.

Incidentally if you ever get Unbuntu running in an MS Virtual PC I'd be very interested to know how - been trying to do this for some time.

[AndrewPK]

after ordering a 320G HD and totalling up the partitions on it which only came to 297G, Vista has self test and diagnostics built in which takes up 23G :eek: .

In truth thats not windows fault, its the way drives are sold,

'True' hard drive sizes are based on binary figures, multiples of 2 (2,4,8,16.....), working this way your figure will never hit 1000, the closest you get is 1024, so you have 1024kb in a mb, 1024mb in a gb and 1024gb in a tb,

However when sold, retailers work on a metric system (1000 in a given denomination) so your 320gb is 320,000Mb (or 320,000,000kb) if you divide that down using the true value (1024) thats where you get the 297gb from

Retailers have been doing this for years, but its only 'really' been in the last few years that its become apparent, (you would only lose 4-500 mb on a 10gb drive for example)

The hard drives in my PC work out to

My 320gb is 297gb
My 120gb is 114gb
My 200gb is 189gb

A total loss of 'sold' space of 40gb :eek:

The only company that I know of that have sold on the 'True' space on a drive is Seagate, (my Seagate 60gb IS 60gb) but i think they have changed to the metric style of rating now

AndrewPK

[jont]

It's the same as buying a car ... your 2.0 litre car will actually be 1955cc (or whatever) .. but that is not so snappy on the PR blurb

[AndrewPK]

It's the same as buying a car ... your 2.0 litre car will actually be 1955cc (or whatever) .. but that is not so snappy on the PR blurb

yep and CPU's, My Athlon 64 3000, is actually a 1.83ghz processor (not the 3ghz the name would suggest!) but it is apparently 'equivalent' to a pentium 3 running at 3ghz! (still, it plays flat out 2 at on full graphics settings so i'm happy!)

I think you could probably find evidence of this type of selling in practically anything, PR teams will always use the best looking set of figures to sell something to you, and let you find out later that (whilst not actually lying) they were not telling the WHOLE truth

AndrewPK

[jont]

I think you could probably find evidence of this type of selling in practically anything, PR teams will always use the best looking set of figures to sell something to you

The favourite has to be the dB rating for Hi-Fi's .. meaningless numbers that shifts boxes ... don't get me started on MegaPixel counts emblazoned on digital cameras :mad:

[AndrewPK]

ahh yes, the joys of PMPO vs RMS,