Shadow, Backup, Ghost etc.

[leehack]

As some of you recently had great amusement in my system capitulation, i thought i'd investigate a better solution than i currently have.

Currently i have everything i do on the PC kept in My Documents, once every 2 or 3 days, i copy the contents of My Documents over to my external 250gb hard drive. This means that i don't lose anything important when restoring apart from time. Its a painstaking process reinstalling software and things like the 250 sites i had in my favourites have gone forever and i've lost all recent email, but in reality i've lost nothing critical, so in essence my procedure was ok, but not great.

My desktop has a single 80GB hard drive, i notice that xp pro has a backup facility, which will take about 2.5 hours on my system, i could do this to the external drive, but it has to be done manually and i'd like something done daily automatically.

I'm not averse to having a second hard drive, what i really want is something that i say restore from here if i have a failure. Windows is asking to update things on my pc at the moment and i wont let it until i have something reliable in place as it appears that this was what caused my recent trash. I ended up having to format the drive and start from scratch.

Rather than digging out CD's and log ins and passwords etc. i want a complete copy of what i have on the day it backs up. A snapshot of the whole of my system including OS, software and files is what i am after. Something that when this happens again, i say ok format the disk and install this from here and i then go to bed rather than spend 12 hours rebuilding it back to former state.

My biggest loss is my favourites, these could have been easily backed up had i thought about them, i think i will create a web page on my own site with these now instead as that gives you a backup naturally.

I understand that there will be solutions not really viable for me, as i want to work with what i have now + some software and a possible extra HD. My current system is a dual core 80GB XP Pro. Anyone care to share what they do or offer any advice?

Any recommendations greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[Cheapprices4u]

im sure it was norman who suggested

http://www.acronis.com/

i have downloaded it and i am currently settign it up, seems to be tickign all the boxes so far

hope it helps

[Duncan Rounding]

I have used Ghost (v8 floppy version) for years until recently, I now use Acronis which does an online backup. I did try the later versions of Ghost which supposedly also do online backups but after two bluescreens on restoring that went by the way very quickly.

With Acronis I schedule weekly full backups and daily differential backups onto a seperate internal drive to happen overnight. I then copy the backups onto an external firewire 800 raid drive every couple of days or so.

Acronis emails a log of the backups after completion - so even if I'm away I can be confident of what's going on.

I've restored with Acronis twice without issue and I've also had no problem pulling out a couple of backup files. Damn good value for £20 from Amazon.

[Cheapprices4u]

oops must of been duncan, i knew it was someone on heres recommendation

[Reefdreams]

Totally agree with the above, but remember to use it! I lost virtually everything after a hard disk drive crash although even then acronis saved a lot!

You can take a disk image, if the hard drive fails put a new one in and use a boot disk to restore exactly as it was before the crash even if you install a bigger disk!

However it is always good to do a fresh install, so Acronis allows you to mount the drive image as another disk e.g F:/ from there you can copy anything you want back into a fresh install.

After my last crash I have installed 2 disks in a mirrored raid configuration (a lot of PCs now allow you to do this) Basically the data gets duplicated between the disks, if one fails you can continue to work, buy a new disk replace the failed one and it will rebuild giving you redundancy again.

But you still need a backup elsewhere in case you get a power surge, lightning strike, flood etc

Don't take chances, it is just the inconvenience of a failiure that is the real pain.

Steve.

[RuralWeb]

I have used Ghost (v8 floppy version) for years until recentlySame here but today it failed and so I will be looking at the whole subject again:rolleyes:

[pinbrook]

I split my drive into C(os and prog files) and D Data, I then use Second Copy to copy anything that has changed on D every 2 hours to both external HD and 2nd HD in 2nd PC.

Thus I have 3 copies. Second copy also allows me to to keep x number of the files you change. Thus in fact i have millions of copies of everything.

I also copy config files, ie ftp profiles, and All Thunderbird profiles and emails.

Both HDs are 200gb

If I've lost something its been because i\couldn't find it rather than not having a copy.

[NormanRouxel]

I'm a Norton Ghost 2003 user. Indeed only this afternoon I made Ghost images of my wife's PC and my Laptop onto an external 250Gb USB2 drive. This is the sort of job that's best done overnight as it then uses up no productive time.

Nowadays I split all systems into C and D drives. The D drive has a Data folder containing My Documents and all the other important stuff.

I make Ghost images of the C drive whenever something significant changes. I make regular copies of the D:\Data folder onto at least 2 external drives, one a pocket drive.

I often take that pocket drive with me when visiting people as it's a lot smaller than a laptop but contains everything I need for development.

I also keep a few VMware virtual PCs on my D drive. I copy these folders onto my big external drive and can even run the virtual system from it on client sites. It's a bit slow but workable to have the entire virtual PC on an external disk via USB2.

The result of this is that I've never lost any data - I just did a quick scan of my current system and still have readable files and working programs going all the way back to the DOS 3 era of 1988. Anyone recall this

You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building.
Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and
down a gully. In the distance there is a tall gleaming white tower.

Yes. the DOS version of Adventure and it still runs in a Command Prompt in XP-Pro! I'm off to scare the snake by freeing the cheerful bird from the wicker cage (but I have to remember that the bird is scared of the rod, so I have to drop that first)....

[Tickle]

I found Acronis to be very good as well.

Although not exactly what you're looking for I thought I'd also recommend Viceversa Pro (no affiliation) which behaves a little differently. Basically it sync's folders with all sorts of options. What I like about it is that it creates a direct copy of a folder rather than the backup files and increments you get with Acronis.

For critical folders I have it set to mirror tomy main machine onto a second HDD, my laptop, and a spare backup PC over the network. So in an emergency my backup PC is effectively in hot standby - no restores needed!

I've found it particularly useful in creating a time buffer of key folders I use a lot. When I had accidentally overwritten an important file the other day I was able to retrieve the it from the backup PC that I had set to 4 hours behind my main - phew.

[leehack]

Thanks for your time and great advice guys and gals.

The four things that peed me off the most were:


Losing at least 250 favourites, well structured into specific folders
FTP details on dreamweaver sites, what an absolute ballache setting each one up from scratch, this was compounded by losing all of my emails which held the ftp details for most of them
Losing all emails, a client had emailed me during the day with a load of stuff for a new site, i felt a right pratt ringing and asking for it to be resent as i'd had a system meltdown
All of those little downloaded applications like screen calipers and your adaware stuff etc.

Many of you have mentioned Acronis, so i have just downloaded their 15 day trial to see what its like. Looks good on first glance as does Jo's Second Copy.

I like the idea of a partitioned drive, C for Windows and D for Data, although it strikes me that it is all sitting on one drive still, which i don't like the sound of. I also hate leaving my external drive permanently on and connected. In my brain something harmful can work its way along the USB cable and trash that also. I always switch this off as soon as i've backed up to it, maybe i'm just paranoid, the idea of leaving this permanently connected makes me worry.

Having fused your valuable pieces of advice, i think a second hard drive is what i would like to do. Using Acronis or Second Copy, i would like to schedule a mirror of my C Drive onto the new drive over night and maybe also onto my external drive. I guess i would be happy to schedule a ghost image each night onto both my external drive and the 2nd HD. I think a mirror is what i want as i really do not want to go through reinstalling 30 odd pieces of software ever again - that nearly had me in tears. I had my laptop downloading all of the little handy applications and add-ons onto a flash drive, while the desktop chugged away through the installations. And then you have the software updates to go through, which just really kick you when you are down.

I would love to think that if i had 2 physical drives, C & D and i worked on C that D would copy it exactly as i worked. Something tells me that would slow my system down though, anyone confirm or quash that theory?

In summary, i think this is my way forward:

Get second hard drive (D) and get C automatically mirroring onto this as i work, no need for scheduled ghosting then. Set a mirror routine to run overnight onto my external drive also. This does leave me with a single point of failure if my house burns down, which tells me i need something online or off site also. I can't quite picture a mirrored image being uploaded online, surely it would take forever? A 2nd external drive stored off site is feasible, however that sounds open to never being kept to properly. Does that sound okay or any flaws in my thinking?

Does a second hard drive need to be anything special, any make i should stick to and are they easy to install or should i take it to my local shop to be done?

Thanks again, really appreciate your help provided on this.

[completerookie]

I've always been worried about true mirroring, if corruption gets in on drive-c, then duplicate corruption occurs on drive-d AT THE SAME TIME - that aside

I' sed second copy for a while, and I think you can set to keep multiple copies of the data, this in itself can be useful - you could then go back one version !

your second drive should be as big as you can manage, if you have 250mb on the main drive, then why not get a 750mb as the external, then split that into three drives (each 250mb)
you can then employ the traditional grandfather, father, son method of backing up to each of the virtual backup drives in turn

one scenario you have to consider is:
if you copy everything to your external drive today, do a load of work tomorrow and then tomorrow night copy to your external drive, what happens IF you just happen to crash DURING the backup - now you've got corruption on the main disk, youve corrupted the backup your doing, and to top it all, you've just over-written HALF of the last good backup that you now need to get you out of that sticky mess thats all over the fan.
its belt and braces !

[george]

Losing at least 250 favourites, well structured into specific folders


Lee, IE has an export favourites thingy that puts them onto an html page.


Strangely I'd imagine that a busy external HD has more chance of failing than any static one. Any fact in that? So maybe backing up to dee-vee-dee discs could be more reliable (than perhaps rewriting to the same external HD a number of times a day, every single day?)

[pinbrook]

1. Losing at least 250 favourites, well structured into specific folders
2. FTP details on dreamweaver sites, what an absolute ballache setting each one up from scratch, this was compounded by losing all of my emails which held the ftp details for most of them
3. Losing all emails, a client had emailed me during the day with a load of stuff for a new site, i felt a right pratt ringing and asking for it to be resent as i'd had a system meltdown
4. All of those little downloaded applications like screen calipers and your adaware stuff etc.

1 can be programmed into your backup routine
2 can be programmed into your backup routine
3 leave emails on mail server for 100 days, and if you have a 2nd office pc download to it too
4 your stuffed.

IE has an export favourites thingy that puts them onto an html page. must admit my favourites are in the format of an HTML file which is then my preferred homepage, this gets backup with all the rest.

[jont]

Yes. the DOS version of Adventure and it still runs in a Command Prompt in XP-Pro! I'm off to scare the snake by freeing the cheerful bird from the wicker cage (but I have to remember that the bird is scared of the rod, so I have to drop that first)....

Norman Rouxell .. copy and pasting http://community.actinic.com/showpost.php?p=99575&postcount=20 .. you should be ashamed :p

Lee - for your bookmarks try somewhere like deli.icio.us so you can pick them up from wherever you are and not just your local machine.

I use Ghost and not had a problem (touch wood) ... saved my bacon on several occasions and more than paid for itself along with the external hard drive that are now as cheap as chips.

[Luddite]

Norman Rouxell .. copy and pasting http://community.actinic.com/showpost.php?p=99575&postcount=20 .. you should be ashamedDon't be ashamed - it was the only piece of this thread I understood!

[TraceyHand]

Don't be ashamed - it was the only piece of this thread I understood!

LOL
me too!

and I was very tempted to add "go left" or something too...
oh dear, I really do need to get a life! :rolleyes:

[NormanRouxel]

Ahah! Caught copying from an earlier post. At least it was my own post. I'd have replied earlier but I'm stuck in the Maze of twisty passages with no money for the battery vending machine!

[leehack]

Sell your soul Norman, shame on you lol :)

[Coggy]

Hi,

I have to agree with those people recommending Acronis...It was recommended to me too, and I found the software to be both intuitive and fast. Although I was previously using quite an old version of Ghost, Acronis wins hands down IMO.

HTH

Chris

[NormanRouxel]

Ghost images provide a great level of security. You can also use Ghost Explorer to peek inside these images and extract the odd file if required.

Combine Ghost with VMware and you can simply create a new virtual PC with a blank virtual disk big enough for the image, load said image and have the entire earlier system running in a window.

[jont]

Caught copying from an earlier post. At least it was my own post.

You were only caught as I don't have a life outside Actinic Forum and read all the posts :o

You can also use Ghost Explorer to peek inside these images and extract the odd file if required.

Used this today to recover a file I had not used in 3 years and deleted last month as the customer wanted a repeat order

[leehack]

I ran a backup for the first time last night using Acronis, i was astonished at how quick it was, it ran the whole thing in about 10 mins, i was expecting a 2 hour process. I had to check the bloody thing to make sure i wasn't doing something stupid, how it actually copies about 15gb so quick is beyond me, but it looks ok. You can also next time, just append the changes to it, although the speed a full one takes, i think i will just do that for convenience.

I'd love to have the bottle to try a restore but i'm too battered and bruised from it all to try. You can restore the image to a virtual drive and take a look inside also, which is great.

[pinbrook]

I must admit Second Copy takes longer, but I choose not to compress anything. I like the fact it doesn't compress as I just go to the backup drive and find the file I want.

It does have an option to automatically FTP if you want webbased backups.

[Duncan Rounding]

I ran a backup for the first time last night using Acronis, i was astonished at how quick it was, it ran the whole thing in about 10 mins, i was expecting a 2 hour process. ...

I presume you only backed up your documents perhap because this sounds much too fast - was this just a few directories or the whole partition?
My differential backup of my (large) partition takes about 15-20 minutes and creates around a 4-6Gb file on high compression. The full partition backup is about 50Gb and IIRC takes about 2.5 hours.

The new version 10 of Acronis can also ftp the backup if you want - I haven't tried it but it's a good idea, for the most inportant data at least.

[RuralWeb]

I use Ghost and not had a problem I blame myself for my problems with it - I hate PCs and software:D

[leehack]

I presume you only backed up your documents perhap because this sounds much too fast - was this just a few directories or the whole partition?
My differential backup of my (large) partition takes about 15-20 minutes and creates around a 4-6Gb file on high compression. The full partition backup is about 50Gb and IIRC takes about 2.5 hours.

The new version 10 of Acronis can also ftp the backup if you want - I haven't tried it but it's a good idea, for the most inportant data at least.
This was my concern, to quote actual figures rather than sky plucked ones, this is the scenario:


My Hard Drive is 80GB of which i am using 11.4GB.
I selected "My Computer" as back up type, as i presume this is a complete image.
On my external drive i created a 'backup' folder and after processing it has put two files in there, one is 4GB and one is 3GB. So i effectively have a 7GB backup for 11.4GB of use. With 'normal' compression, this would seem ok to me. Why it split into 2 files though, i do not know.


It may have took a bit more than 10 mins, but i would say 20 mins at max, it is hard to relate to be honest, i've had so little sleep, things are just passing me by.

Even so, it seemed very quick to me, which caused me to check it straight after. Maybe because i have a small hard drive and im only using 11.4GB and the fact that i have dual core processing brings this down somewhat. I was expecting a 2 hour process to be honest, unless i am not using it correctly.

LOL im worried again now.

[Duncan Rounding]

Your file size looks ok - don't know why you have two files though. Schedule if for some other time, let it be, and and check it again after that.

In my case my partition is about 80Gb of data - with high compression so hence the extra time.

[leehack]

I'm not exactly sure what i have done to anybody right now, but i was just processing another backup as im paranoid now and it gets to 98% finished, and we have a 3 second powercut. FFS do i need a UPS now also?

Leave me alone gremlins.

[RuralWeb]

FFS do i need a UPS now also Been there and bought the UPS last year!!!

[leehack]

Well i have just done another backup as Duncan has me worried and it took 7 minutes to do a 'my computer' backup on normal compression which makes it about a 7gb archive. It has however once again split the file into two. In the settings it says it won't do this if it doesnt have to and the disk it is putting them on is a solitary 250gb external with 200gb free, so im stumped.

Laptop collapse, desktop collapse, powercut... what's next ffs.....shoot...hope its not early labour.

[NormanRouxel]

after processing it has put two files in there, one is 4GB and one is 3GB.
Most backup programs will split the created files into several 2Gb or 4Gb ones. That way you can copy them to DVD, etc. If there was one humongous file there would be no chance. It also allows for older O/S's where there are file size limits.

[leehack]

Of course DVD sizes, i'm such a twit.

[jont]

There is also a limit with the file size that can be created in FAT32 ... as I discovered after many failed backups on the server... NTFS overcomes this.

edit *** just re-read Normans post to the same effect.

[leehack]

My external is FAT32, so mystery solved.

[pinbrook]

do i need a UPS now also? run from your laptop to a ext HD also running on laptop power , no problem.

[jmedinger]

This thread may now be solved and Lee has his solution however I just thought I'd throw my tuppence worth into the ring.

We use a RAID array to dupe everything that happens across 2 HD's (means that if one fails, you continue working quite happily until you can replace the failed disk) and we also have Ghost v10 backing up onto 250Gb external drives which run on a constant basis.

I'd heartily recommend Ghost 10 for a couple of reasons...

1) Data encryption. If your kit gets nicked (God Forbid) all files on your PC (which of course you access via a windows logon *AND* a BIOS password) have been backed up and securely encrypted on the external drive meaning that nobody can get access to all those ftp passwords, emails and sensitive data that everyone keeps on their computer.

2) We schedule the backup job to run a full backup every night from about 3am and then have incremental backups happening every hour.
This means that you're never more than 59 minutes from your last complete restore point.

3) Ghost will *literally* restore your computer to the state it was before the crash/meltdown/whatever including every single bookmark, security patch, extra software you may have added with absolutely no reinstalling to do whatsoever.

Anyway - that's my tuppence!

[Duncan Rounding]

A matter of personal choice perhaps but I don't feel comfortable with Ghost 'online' backups after having bluescreens on restore. These days I stick to the original floppy backup version (Ghost 2003) when using Ghost.

For online use I now use Acronis in a similar way to what you describe which (so far so good) has performed well.

An interesting comparison is here:
http://www.techsupportalert.com/drive-imaging-reviews.htm