Customer unhappy with item - help

[janettenn]

Hello
I've just had an unhappy customer on the phone - she ordered an album with presentation box (product code AS02 here http://www.nattynetty.co.uk/acatalog/Albums_and_Scrapbooks.html ). She says it wasn't what she was expecting as it is textured and the picture on the website doesn't show this (I think it does). She then said that she thinks I sent her the wrong one as the one she wanted didn't mention a presentation box. I have double-checked her order and she definitely ordered this one which I sent her. She insists I must've sent the wrong one and that my website isn't clear.

Anyway, she wants to return it and recieve a refund for it plus for her postage costs (it'll cost her about £8 to send back). I have said that I'll be happy to refund the cost of the album but she'll have to pay to return it. She got stroppy and I said I'd call her back after I'd discussed it with another member of staff.

Where do I stand? I'm under the impression she has to pay the cost to return it as it's not been sent in error by me and it's not faulty.

Please help

[Rich Brady]

The textured comment, may be valid. It's difficult to tell from the photo, so it might be worth mentioning in the listing.

You state clearly in you Ts and Cs that you will not refund the return postage, which I would mention to her.

When ever I deal with returns and refunds I treat each case as it comes in. Sometimes I may issue a full refund if I think it's just or there is potention future business, but if she's been stroppy, stick to your guns.

[parklifeclothes]

The first line of your product description states:

'Handmade plain mulberry photo album with presentation box'

so she could be confused that what she received isn't quite what she wanted however the picture does show texturing. She sounds like she doesn't want it and has found a reason to claim a full refund.

From experience it is sometimes best to do the refund and postage otherwise her next move will be it's 'damaged' or something else, its a bugbear but just one of the traits of selling online. Because of the way it is described it could possibly be seen to have been sent in error, therefore within the terms and conditions.

[grantglendinnin]

I'll warn you now:

Never issue a partial or full refund of an item until it's physically back in your hands.

Never issue a partial or full refund of an item until you've checked it's still in perfect (working?) order.

I'll tell you now that these £&%*^&$ are all over the internet, such a shame. They expect to be able to send an item back to you in an unsellable condition, therefore not only do you lose their sale, you have to give all their money back, plus (in your case) £8 loss to cover her postage costs, and then ultimately, the X rate you've paid for the item itself. Selling on the internet can - and is - a tough business, which is why you need to crack down on returns (staying within DSR/SoG Act) - which in this particular case, she is liable for the return postage cost if the item is being returned for any other reason than damaged or an incoherent fault.

As Rich said, stick to your guns;)

[janettenn]

Thanks for your advice...

Well being the soft touch I am I phoned her back, stated the T&C's and then said as a compromise I'd also refund her for the other item she bought but wants to keep. OK it only comes to an extra £3.50 refund but it'd go part way to the £6.85 it'd cost to send the album back by parcel post. She said she only wanted to send it back registered delivery in case it got lost (she was not interested when I tried to explain proof of postage) and that I hadn't done her any favours and £3.50 was nothing compared to the business I could've had with her!

To be perfectly honest I really don't care, I can do without customers like her the stroppy little mare :mad:

Oh and yes I'll definitely wait until it arrives back in stock before any refund is issued. And I've just changed the description of the albums to avoid any other confusion - although how she missed the presentation box in the picture/description will remain a mystery.

[jont]

I hadn't done her any favours and £3.50 was nothing compared to the business I could've had with her!

Genuine bulk buyers NEVER use that phrase. It is always the idiots that try and pull that one, always.

Not that I advocate such things and would never do it myself (obviously) but I have heard of similar situations and the company receiving the parcel signed for the return using a false name. The returning sender contacts asking why no refund has been given and they claim not received.... when they check the POD the signing person has never worked at that company and they need to claim via RoyalMail. Shocking tactics to press onto customers who think you are stupid.

[Froogle]

I've had a few crackers this week.

I had this customer who placed an order for 3 items. One of the items was out of stock so I had it shipped from my supplier to him on the day he placed the order. He'd ordered 6 of the item but there was only 4 left (stock showing 6 so not sure what happened to the other 4). Anyway the order didn't go out so only one item was delivered.

He emailed about it and I emailed him apologising for the delay and that the remainder of the order would be sent shortly.

He replied:

"i mailed you yesterday and i was confirmed by you that my partial order is going to be dispatched yesterday, and by next day service it should be arrive today, via citilink service. and if i don't get my items today, i will not willing to get you rubbish and s**t services any more. and i will go for claim including my time and my lost which i will have after today. If u cant process order clearly don't take any order. You have time till end of today , after that consider my order as cancelled and i want my money back with at least 30% as sue to you, if u did it, than it will ok other wise i will go through the legal process. waiting my time and not processing the order and not able to deliver the order in time, as well as i will start a net campaign for net buyers to inform them about your shit service.
I hope u will understand my frustration."

I replied saying I was sorry there was a shortage on the item.

He replied

"Hi there,
How many do u have in stock at the moment, and also do u have the other item as well.?
i will tell u after ur reply what to do next.
Waiting for your response."

I explained there was 4 in stock and the other item was in stock and he asked me to ship the order and email him the tracking number.

Before I'd had a chance to send the tracking number at just after 6pm (I normally send tracking numbers about 8pm) he replied with:

"Hey,
I waited for you reply, but you didn't replied in time, and i am sick of your f**ing s**t customers service. I don't need any thing now and want my money back straight away with a minute waiting.

Absolutely f**ing rubbish and s**t Customers Service."

As you can see the guy's English isn't too good, but I don't think this is any reason for him to express himself in the manner he has. I was hard dealing with this customer as I really did want to tell him where to go.

[Duncan Rounding]

Sounds like he's trying to wind you up.
I would have cancelled the balance of his order after the first email.

[Darren B]

So would I, i have emails like this, a recent one was with a paypal customer - funny when i think of it all my problem orders seem to be from paypal customers?

Basically i shipped an item by the usual royalmail standard parcel service, it normally takes a few days but can take longer. Within a week of sending the order the guy was giving me grief as it had not arrived.

far enough but a simple enquiry would have done, i replied asking him if he had check with his neighbours as they sometimes get left with them, i also explained it could be at his sorting office as no one was in for delivery, they would have posted a card. But promised him i would see if i could find anything out - I usual track the local delivery office and pretend to be the customer and one mor ethan one occasion they tell me the parcel is there waiting for the customer to arrange redelivery or collection.

Within a day i got a stroppy email back telling me he did not care it was my responsibilty blah blah blah.

next i get an email from paypal telling me he had registered a claim for non delivery. And then sends me another email demanding a full refund. I replied declining the refund and explained to him that as far as i was concerned it was now in the hands of paypal and i would await there decision and would not respond to any further emails.

the order value including delivery £11.43

One of those customers i really dont need the money from. In reality this is rare and the high value orders are always the ones that come back and order again, they never seems to give you grief, even if an item is delayed by a few days for various reasons, they always seem to be happy.

I have heard of similar situations and the company receiving the parcel signed for the return using a false name

Class - makes a note in his little book of excuses

D

[Duncan Rounding]

I think it's sometimes better to wait 24 hours before replying to such customers, as a fast response only seems to add fuel to the fire.

[bentleybloke]

Regarding your legal obligations... A basic summary of the Consumer Protection Act, as I understand it. Feel free to correct me.


Customer buys something mail order
Customer receives item, unpacks it decides they don't really like it
Customer has to inform you in writing (email/letter/fax) that they intend to return item. If you have informed the customer of their right to cancel, they have 7 working days to do this. If you have not informed them of their right to cancel, they have 3 calendar months.
Customer returns item at their own expense
You recieve item in unused, resaleable condition
If they have returned everything, you issue full refund including delivery costs to customer. If they have only returned part of the order, you just refund those items and they pay the delivery costs.


PS. Your product looks textured to me. Costomer (that's what I call these people) must have a crap monitor.

[pinbrook]

I think it's sometimes better to wait 24 hours before replying to such customers, as a fast response only seems to add fuel to the fire. Totally agree, its amazing how people calm down after a nights sleep

[Cheapprices4u]

customers are alway quick to moan

i had one the other week think he had bought some thigh high boots for his missus without her knowing

he called on the monday after he placed order over weekend, asking if he coudl cancel
i informed him they had been despatched and if he wanted to return he could
but he would have to inform me and then upon returning to the warehouse we would offer a full refund

he seemed happy

but ive had no email no boots, so maybe she was happy with them after all


my guess is it will blow over

[Duncan Rounding]

Or he decided to keep them for himself! ;)

[pnagames]

customer like these exist everywhere

we get the odd here and there

majority however are fine.

the more annoying customers are those that do not contact you about a potential problem.

just raise a paypal dispute straight away :mad:

[gobeyond007]

Hello
I've just had an unhappy customer on the phone - she ordered an album with presentation box (product code AS02 here http://www.nattynetty.co.uk/acatalog/Albums_and_Scrapbooks.html ). She says it wasn't what she was expecting as it is textured and the picture on the website doesn't show this (I think it does). She then said that she thinks I sent her the wrong one as the one she wanted didn't mention a presentation box. I have double-checked her order and she definitely ordered this one which I sent her. She insists I must've sent the wrong one and that my website isn't clear.

Anyway, she wants to return it and recieve a refund for it plus for her postage costs (it'll cost her about £8 to send back). I have said that I'll be happy to refund the cost of the album but she'll have to pay to return it. She got stroppy and I said I'd call her back after I'd discussed it with another member of staff.

Where do I stand? I'm under the impression she has to pay the cost to return it as it's not been sent in error by me and it's not faulty.

Please help

that happened to a friend of mine

[fleetwood]

quiet franklee Im disgusTed to read all this I was going two order a lot of things (at leest £200 each) from everyone that has ritten above but now Im not and Im going two tell all my fiends not too order from all of ewe two and I want commonsation for the time it haz taken me to rite this when I cud have been wotchin a film

[guccij]

quiet franklee Im disgusTed to read all this I was going two order a lot of things (at leest £200 each) from everyone that has ritten above but now Im not and Im going two tell all my fiends not too order from all of ewe two and I want commonsation for the time it haz taken me to rite this when I cud have been wotchin a filmAn u no wot? I hav bad tiniters and ur earplugs cud hav mad it worser an u wudnt wont 2 b negligee of that.

(an only slightly less literate version of a customer email from last week)

[grantglendinnin]

You'll all still feel s**t on Monday morning when all those potential repeat customers see you taking the piss out of their English!

One of the earliest online promotion techniques I was told - always include a link to your site in your e-mail signature - it's like free backlinks from those who hate you, try it out, maybe the little boys and girls will copy your replies onto their freewebs site - or if you're really lucky, you might even get a few backlinks from Myspace if you're lucky:p

Ah, simple things:)

[chris ashdown]

Regarding your legal obligations... A basic summary of the Consumer Protection Act, as I understand it. Feel free to correct me.


Customer buys something mail order
Customer receives item, unpacks it decides they don't really like it
Customer has to inform you in writing (email/letter/fax) that they intend to return item. If you have informed the customer of their right to cancel, they have 7 working days to do this. If you have not informed them of their right to cancel, they have 3 calendar months.
Customer returns item at their own expense
You recieve item in unused, resaleable condition
If they have returned everything, you issue full refund including delivery costs to customer. If they have only returned part of the order, you just refund those items and they pay the delivery costs.


PS. Your product looks textured to me. Costomer (that's what I call these people) must have a crap monitor.


The DSR actuall expect the seller to pay for the return of the goods, not the customer, but the customer does have a duty of care of the item

Some Trading standards do seem to accept that the customer should pay to return the goods if its stated in T&C but thats definatly not strickly what the DSR says

Personaly I think we are all lucky that nobody is going to be willing to take someone to court over such a small sum

All goes back to days of the mail order catalogue where they set up free returns as part of the deal along with weekly terms and as many samples to try on as you like

[grantglendinnin]

Some Trading standards do seem to accept that the customer should pay to return the goods if its stated in T&C but thats definatly not strickly what the DSR says

Just to confirm the UK's Trading Standards did confirm when I contacted them for advice on such details that it is in fact illegal to charge customers to return items (strictly, unless they simply did not want the item). I was also advised it is against UK consumer law to charge any form of 'restocking' or 'handling' fee unless the order is 'taylor made' or ordered in by the seller (ie. from a supplier) solely for the intention of supplying to their customer.

I'm yet to find any company that sticks strictly to what trading standards say anyway. IMO, they're almost ineffective and completely useless - complain to them about issues which all the major super markets have been fined for in recent years and they turn a blind eye to it, you tell me who's slipping the back handers;)

[TraceyHand]

Just to confirm the UK's Trading Standards did confirm when I contacted them for advice on such details that it is in fact illegal to charge customers to return items (strictly, unless they simply did not want the item).

'unless they simply did not want the item'

I think this is usually the cases that we are talking about though. The majority of the time, returns are 'not as expected' returns where the customer (as long as it's in your T&Cs) can be expected to pay for return postage.

[fleetwood]

potential repeat customers see you taking the piss out of their English

its not the bad English thats being taking the piss out of - its the pathetic "I was going to spend loads of money" and "you owe me compensation" lines thats some cretins come out with. The bad English just seems to accompany such garbage, for some inexplicable reason :rolleyes:

An unhappy customer should recieve your immediate and full attention.

A rude and obnoxious 'customer' who makes unresaonable and sometimes extortinate demands, often because they have made a f**k up when placing the order, does not deserve such attention IMHO.

That sort of 'repeat' custom, some of us can live without

[leehack]

for some inexplicable reason :rolleyes:
The reason is IQ, you'd do well to find a pulse on most of these people.

[fleetwood]

The DSR actuall expect the seller to pay for the return of the goods, not the customer, but the customer does have a duty of care of the item

I don't think this is correct Chris.
If the customer cancels (as opposed to claims damaged goods), it is their responsibility to return the goods in good condition and at their own expense.

They are entitled to a refund of any shipping charges you made for originally shipping the order, but not the return expense.

The relevant paragraphs:

The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000

14. - (1) On the cancellation of a contract under regulation 10, the supplier shall reimburse any sum paid by or on behalf of the consumer under or in relation to the contract to the person by whom it was made free of any charge, less any charge made in accordance with paragraph (5).


Restoration of goods by consumer after cancellation
17. (3) On cancellation, the consumer shall be under a duty to restore the goods to the supplier in accordance with this regulation, and in the meanwhile to retain possession of the goods and take reasonable care of them.

(4) The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in another durable medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the supplier and given to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods are collected from those premises.

(5) If the consumer -

(a) delivers the goods (whether at his own premises or elsewhere) to any person to whom, under regulation 10(1), a notice of cancellation could have been given; or

(b) sends the goods at his own expense to such a person,
he shall be discharged from any duty to retain possession of the goods or restore them to the supplier.

Actually, re-reading that, its not as clear as I thought :o

It seems that the consumer does not have to actually send the goods back, but has to hand them over if you send someone to collect them.
If they do send them back however, it is at their own expense.
There is no mention that I can see that you have to reimburse them postage costs if you ask them to return the goods, but they are not obliged to send them back, merely hold them awaiting collection.

[fleetwood]

A further update from OFT "A guide for businesses on
distance selling"

Return of goods following cancellation (Regulation 17)
Who pays for returning the goods if the consumer cancels
an order?
3.55 If you want the consumer to return the goods and to pay for that
return, you must make it clear in the contract and as part of the
required written information – see paragraph 3.10. If the consumer
then fails to return the goods, or sends them at your expense, you
can charge them the direct cost to you of the return, even if you
have already refunded the consumer’s money. You are not allowed
to make any further charges, such as a restocking charge or an
administration charge.
3.56 If you did not include these details in the required written information
then you cannot charge anything. See paragraph 3.10. You can never
require consumers to pay the cost of returning substitute goods –
see paragraph 3.1 for more information.
3.57 If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will
have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.


As usual - regs as clear as mud, and seemingly contadictory advice from the same source (OFT), but seems like you can enforce returns at customers expense if its in your T&C.

Discuss :)

[TraceyHand]

That's the exact passage I read last night, Martin, when I was just checking that I hadn't got it wrong!
I nearly quoted it...and now I don't need to :p

[fleetwood]

I thought I had it right the first time Tracey, as had looked this up before, but after posting and reading it back to myself, it looked like I got it wrong :o

Another trawl of the OFT website (see above) seems to have vindicated me after all :D

..but what a minefield!

[bentleybloke]

The most important thing to remember is that you have to tell the customer their distance selling rights in your t&c otherwise you're screwed. We even summarise the relevent sections on the back of the invoice.

[Rich Brady]

The problem is that any genuine and decent customer will have no issue with covering the return postage.

It is only when you get the real awkward b***ards that you have to remained them of your Ts&Cs or Distance Selling Regulations and 9 times out of 10 they don't think these things apply to them anyway!!! :mad:

[fleetwood]

So true Rich.

Its the same with face to face transctions in a shop.

Any resaonable customer who returns an unwanted purchase to a shop, is happy to take an exchange or credit note, and views the offer of a refund as a bonus (there is no legal entitlement to a refund).

The unreasonable (dare I say uneducated!) customer, demands a cash refund as thay claim it is their legal right!

[guccij]

You'll all still feel s**t on Monday morning when all those potential repeat customers see you taking the piss out of their English!Er no I won't. The young lady in question has already been told in no uncertain terms not to order again. Not because of her English, but because of her general rudeness and demanding a refund with menaces - oh, and for refusing to send back the allegedly faulty goods (despite us giving a full refund and paying for the return). We'd also sent her replacements ...

[grantglendinnin]

Er no I won't.

Seems you're a bit hot under the collar, watch out for the good ol' libellous claims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel). If your customer can prove what you've posted on here came directly from an e-mail he/she sent you, you may well find yourself in the soup. Then again, he/she seems like they want everything for nothing - luckily you won't find many free lawyers and courts offering free cases:D

[fleetwood]

For the record, quoting something a customer has said, is not libel.

Libel or slander require the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, and for the injured party to be identified.

[guccij]

Seems you're a bit hot under the collar, watch out for the good ol' libellous claims. Fortunately I was a journalist in a former life and my knowledge of the libel laws is, to coin a phrase, sh!t hot.

[grantglendinnin]

Fair enough. At the end of the day, let's face it - you're showing the true colours of a company when the employees go around slagging off their customers in clear public view. End of;)

[Stereo Steve]

'Text speak' is nothing new though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt5P_zvE5qY

[Paul Bulpit]

you're showing the true colours of a company when the employees go around slagging off their customers in clear public view.

Concur. The customer is always right.

If you want a peaceful life - learn to stomach it. I'll be the first to agree with you, but sometimes it's better to give in gracefully.

[Darren B]

The customer is always right.

Complete bollox - its another phrase coined by some marketing bod years ago.

I only deal nicely with the ones that say "I made a mistake" or "could you please help as it has not arrived" e.t.c not the ones that say "Get it to me by tomorrow" or "im goining to sue you" letter of the law for those people the full 30 days before refund e.t.c normally backed up with a polite email explaining all further orders will be refused.

[guccij]

I only deal nicely with the ones that say "I made a mistake" or "could you please help as it has not arrived" e.t.c not the ones that say "Get it to me by tomorrow" or "im goining to sue you" Couldn't agree more. I'm not a slave, nor will I put up with abuse from customers.

[Mark H]

We do not "give in gracefully" to offensive or abusive calls or emails, and/or people who are trying it on (which ultimately is to the detriment of decent customers). In such cases we stick strictly to our T&Cs where otherwise we are more willing to bend the rules for good customers. Companies who give in just encourage bad customers to try it on somewhere else as well.

[Jarvis]

... The customer is always right. ...
M% 4R$3! :eek: