Search engine optimisation - preparing a site

[prosite]

Well the other topic is getting a little heated so I am starting another topic in order to get to the bottom of what is considered good practice and can help you get high on the results but there is NO garuntee. This is meant as a guide only

Being ranked on search engines is in a nutshell about providing the search engine with relevant content that will be scored against the search undertaken. For this example I am using chocolate frogs... the search being made is for chocolate frogs Web surfers are pretty savvy now and tend to know what they want and will use that for the search.

From the top down

1/ Domain name, a good start for example if you are selling frogs then frogs.com would be the best, if you are selling chocolate frogs then chocolatefrogs or chocolate_(or-)frogs.com would also be a good one to have. so you have the domain chocolate-frogs.com

2/ Title Tag, This should contain the word chocolate frogs

3/ Meta Keywords tag use chocolate frogs (only once no repitition)

4/ Meta Description We sell chocolate frogs

4/ Image Naming, name your images relavent to your product/s chocolate-frogs.gif chocolate_frogs.jpg etc..

5/ Content - Buy this splendid chocolate frog they taste of chocolate and look like a frog

6/ Link to other sites, google in particular likes this one if possible link to suppliers sites or something like a charity it is all bout creating the WEB although most people will find a reason not to link to someone elses site.

7/ Links to your site, get your freinds to link to your site and add your site to directory listings like the open directory project http://www.dmoz.org you should create a junk email address as this does tend to generate alot of spam, but hey you get a link and a higher ranking...

If you follow these 7 simple guides and actinics guide to setting up catalog then you should do ok.

There are quite a few other things that you could do but you are entering a minefeild, best stay out of that one.

NOTE: do not over do your content and related image naming this can work against you in the long run, keep it clean and relavant. All search engines are in a very very competative market place and all want to give the best results possible, so help them out. Good content = Happy search engine = Good results for you..

Next addition:-
Search engine optimisation - submitting your site

[prosite]

So you have prepared a site what to do now?

Google/ Certain search engines like that of google are pretty intellegant (unlike my ability to spell!) The googleBot will find your site if you have a link from any site that google has already looked at hence. So theroetically you do not need to actually submit it. However you can and I would but once and once only. Firstly do a check by running a search on your domain name, if you are listed DO NOT re-submit, you are already there go back to points 1-7 in the previous post and see if you can change anything. You can also do a search in google by typing link:http://www.youdomain.com this will display all sites that link to you. if you have over 5 sites linking to you do not submit to google.

Oh and google Toolbar, when you conduct a search from that if no site is found then googleBot will start looking for a result. type your domain into that and press search available from google.com under tools or http://toolbar.google.com/

Yahoo/ Pay to be listed in the yahoo! catagories google uses this aswell and you will be ranked better on the results page.

Open Directory project/ http://www.dmoz.org search to see if you are already listed, if not surf to the catagory that your site should be listed under once at the final catagory stage you will see Add URL click this and follow the instruction. Most search enignes will look into the ODP to get a better content click through.

Directory Sites/ Get listed on directory sites, they are free and all they want to do is send you junk mail! for that you get a link and potentially a better placement.

All other search engine/ Dont know and frankly dont care, both I and my customers get enough buisness from google thanks...


Hope that helps someone out there

J

[prosite]

Include in this in your meta tags open up Act_primary.html and paste this intbetween the <head></head> tag

<meta name="robots" content="index,follow">


Also create a file called robots.txt in notepad or the Mac equivalant, copy the below code into it, you will need to FTP it to the root location of your website

User-agent: *
Disallow:

The above will allow ALL robots to view ALL folders

If you want to exclude a particular folder then you use the following:

User-agent: *
Disallow: /users/
Disallow: /logs/


This will stop a robot looking at that folder on your site and indexing it.

For a lowdown on robots and exclusion look at http://www.robotstxt.org/

Robots are also known as Bots, webcrawlers, spiders etc...


J

[Mike Hughes]

A few other things:

1. You don't need a robots.txt file unless you want to exclude certain areas. The search engines will happily search your site without one.

2. Each page of your site should have a different title. To use the above analogy, one page could be 'chocolate frogs' another 'golden wrapped chocolate frogs' another 'white chocolate frogs' etc.

An easy way to do the above is to include the actinic page name in the title (and name each page/section appropriately in Actinic). To do this just put this for the title at the top of the template and actinic will do it automatically.

<title>NETQUOTEVAR:PAGEHEADER - other keywords or marketing message</title>

The reason you might want to show a marketing message is that the title is what the search engines will display when they show the result, so you might want it to say "Chocolate Frogs - Best Selection in the UK".

3. The second most important area for google and other engines (after the title) is the heading tags. (<h1>, <h2>, etc). I embed the H1 and H2 tags in my templates so they highlight the appropriate bits (the section name for H1 tags and product name for h2 tags). These tags change the font size and boldness so I redefine them in the CSS file to make them look the way I want them.

If you follow the few simple steps we've outlines here you will do better than 98% of the sites out there and usually much better than the so called professional sites. They're usually very badly designed from a search engines point of view (unlike actinic).

Mike

[prosite]

Absolubtly right, in fact you really cant go wrong using an actinic store. Because of the way that actinic generates static html for your store, that you then upload, it is porbably one of the best store solutions on the market.

We have developed sites using a multitude of e-commerce solutions but none get the results that actinic get. I feel that the original (and the current) developer/s really have a great understandning of how the search engines work so most of it is done for you all you have to do is take a little time in setting it up naming images correctly etc. and there is no reason why your site should not rank highly on the SE's.

You cant go wrong with an actinic solution....


J

p.s. should there be a discussion on catalogs using frames? and SE's indexing child pages. I have code that will place your pages back into a frame set if that will help anyone.

pps Lets keep this one going, all tips hints and info for search engines post here.

[jxm28788]

3/ Meta Keywords tag use chocolate frogs (only once no repitition) if you sell all kinds of frogs can you repeat 'frog' or will you be penalised for that?

eg. plastic frogs, fluffy frogs, chocolate frogs, wooden frogs...

What would be the best way to write the tag in that case?

[rmladden]

If you can pay for a product, see http://www.webposition.com/

Too many repetitions will get the page downgraded. Webposition will analyze and make suggestions for your pages.

[prosite]

It will pick the changes up as a phrase so as long as you commer out the phrase then that is ok, you would use something like this

meta name=keywords content=chocolate frogs,fluffy frogs,green frogs

if you have frogs,frogs,frogs then that is bad,
also make sure the content reads in a new paragraph

<p>Choco frogs
<p>fluffy frogs

Google is much better at reading actual content of the page rather then meta tags. it can determin the differance between spam content and justified content.

It really is about providing real content, read the page as if you are a visitor to the site if it reads like you are overdoing it then you probably are.

Sometimes using more pages it good as each page has a referance to the product/item more content is also good but means more navigation. So consider using more sections and individual purchase pages.

So for your site I would consider having an extra section that previews the range and then put each product on a single product page (or bunch them up a little)

For example
> Catalog> Chocolate & Cookies> Belgian chocolate> Product
Or
> Catalog> Chocolate & Cookies> Cookies> Product

You will build more pages and the content of the site in general will appear bigger (more relavent to a search).

J

[jxm28788]

I have been using webposition gold to monitor my sites progress up the search engines, and so far everything looks ok (except for not being very high up!), but the last few days something weird has been happening.

First I noted lycos doing it (but not lycos UK) so I though it was something they were doing. BUt today google is doing it too...

under the search keywords, instead of listing my URL it comes up with garbage, such as -

"www.lowcarbgoodies.co.uk/ onmousedown="return clk(1,this)"

and

"search';ff3('http://click.fastsearch.com/go2/2/ps/1c591241AC/NDA6cGZpOTEyNzAJMzUxOTczMTg4OAk0OAlrZXRvc3RpeA/http://www.lowcarbgoodies.co.uk/','http://sidesearch.lycos.com/?query=ketostix&first=51&hur"

Any ideas what is causing this? APart from Lycos and google the others seem ok. Also google gets the right URL on a different keyword "low carb products" (see me there at position 19...:( )

[prosite]

Very odd,

Can you give me a keyword when you got that result (cant replicate), also I am looking at your code you have way too many keywords in the meta tag you should reduce that (128 characters max)

This could be happening because it is picking up illegal code from your store but I can not even find the code in your source...

If I do a search from google.co.uk and enter low carb cereals you are #5 on a web search and #1 on a uk specific search! not 2 bad at all.

You have atkins in the keywords but only one referance on the catalog, how about you join the Amazon affiliate program link to the Dr Atkins book.

Also why dont you have an adwords account, it can be a cheap but affective way of gaining traffic. https://adwords.google.co.uk/select/
Consider 10p a click and a fiver a day. (gives you a box on the right hand side)

There is also no meta keywords or description on child pages (ones that appear after the homepage)

J

[jxm28788]

If I do a search from google.co.uk and enter low carb cereals you are #5 on a web search and #1 on a uk specific search! not 2 bad at all. oh yeah. that's good. I wasn't checking for that keywork in webpositionpro... that explains why there was a sudden rush on cereals (and why they are now all marked 'out of stock'...:) )

Low Carb Goodies Low Carb Cereals
Products > Low Carb Cereals. Keto Frosted Flakes Now you can enjoy frosted flakes
without all the carbs and added sugars! ... Quantity: Products > Low Carb Cereals. ...
www.lowcarbgoodies.co.uk/ low-carb-BreakfastCereals.html - 20k - Cached - Similar pages The results are a bit pants though, how do I change this?

You have atkins in the keywords but only one referance on the catalog, how about you join the Amazon affiliate program link to the Dr Atkins book. Would that benefit me in anyway (apart from the tiny affiliate fees)? I don't really want to send people away from my site!

you have way too many keywords in the meta tag you should reduce that (128 characters max)I know, when I started I just thought of every keyword I could and then forgot to amend it. Having trouble getting below 128 though... What should I do about plurals? and are they case sensitive (do I need uk & UK)?

Also why dont you have an adwords accountI do, I suspended it because so many lines went out of stock in the last week - no point paying to drive people to an empty store. There was a surge of orders that caught me off guard, and there is a long lead time on the US stuff...doh.

(cant replicate) nor me. google seems to be sorted now, and lycos seems to work in reality - maybe webpos it getting somethin wrong in reading the results. ho hum. gained 10 today - including my first 3 key phrases into overture on pages 2 and 1 (although quite far down)

Are these webpos stats any good - Visibility Score: 647, Visibility Percentage: 12.25%?

[prosite]

sudden rush on cereals

;-) pretty good eh


results are a bit pants though

It is taking the text from the first and second paragraph in the catalog page, so you would edit the description there, my recommendation would be dont do it! it obviously likes the content of the page and has given you a good (no excellent) result, if it works dont fix it, as they say.

(in fact use it as a template for all other pages that dont get a result)


Would that benefit me in anyway

Not really but it is fairly open as a keyword, and goolge 'likes' you to link out to other sites so you may get a better rating. And all money is good money ;-)

I suspended it because so many lines went out of stock

Great good to see it working eh. more people could do with setting up an account.

webpos stats anygood

No idea I have not used for about three years as google has surpassed the need for it. + i think it is better to do a search and click the link as it means that the result gets a good click through rate which is better for you.

Not to sure on plurals and caps varitation, I think that the engines are capable of understanding the differance so I dont normally bother.

put this into your act_primary template inbetween the <head> </head> tag and upload the catalog

<meta name="robtos" content="index,follow">

Cheers

J

[jxm28788]

<meta name="robtos" content="index,follow">I assume that should say robots, but what does it do?

[prosite]

sorry yes it should say robots.

In a nutshell it tells a robot (metacrawler, spider, googlebot etc) to index this page in its results and follow all links on that page. It is a bit like creating way points in GPS you say mark this point and then follow on to the next point (only in this case multiple points). It is not essential as the very nature of the robot will do this, you are just saying ok mark this page for indexing and I dont mind if you follow (and index) all the other pages. Think of it as giving a helping hand.

J

ps. failed english ;-)

[jxm28788]

ps. failed englishme too. I blame the goverment.;)

[pinbrook]

<meta name="robots" content="index,follow">

You are better of excluding this, if this tag is not present SEs assume index, follow.

SEs prefer to assume rather than be told.

[prosite]

:p

[ajfish]

Team,
Please help before I lose faith in the ability of an Actinic site to do well in google rankings.
4 years ago I started watchbattery.co.uk selling just that, watch batteries. Today you can search on google (for watch batteries) and it is number one out of about 2 million pages. I really did think I knew what I was doing.
Okay, the site is dated, but i am reluctant to change it because of its good rankings and have been running the battery-shed.co.uk site in tandem for several years. It was based on version 4 to start with and now it is based on version 7 at the .co.uk address. I still can't get the site listed well (page 6 of google). I have tried the usual H1 tag approach (see below)
Take the page
http://www.battery-shed.co.uk/acatalog/BT_Synergy_900_Cordless_Phone_Battery.html
and if you search for
BT synergy cordless phone battery
the site doesn't appear until about page 6 on google.
Depsite this being a dedicated page to that product, the page name being very relevant and with H1 tags around the search string being used.
Can anyone please fathom what is going on here?

Andrew





A few other things:


3. The second most important area for google and other engines (after the title) is the heading tags. (<h1>, <h2>, etc). I embed the H1 and H2 tags in my templates so they highlight the appropriate bits (the section name for H1 tags and product name for h2 tags). These tags change the font size and boldness so I redefine them in the CSS file to make them look the way I want them.

If you follow the few simple steps we've outlines here you will do better than 98% of the sites out there and usually much better than the so called professional sites. They're usually very badly designed from a search engines point of view (unlike actinic).

Mike

[wduk]

Dear Andrew,

There is one main difference between your two sites and that is the number and quality of backlinks that they each have. One is PR5 and the other is PR1. (google gives a variable called PR (stands for Page Rank) depending on the number and quality of link a site has).

In your position I would try to get more links to your battery-shed.co.uk. May be even from the main sources than the ones going to watchbattery.co.uk - may be even linking watch battery to battery-shed.


Regards

Leo

[jont]

It may be Google is frowning at the number of times you are using the phrase "cordless phone battery" which does appear a lot of times on the page - content is king with search engines but they dont like being spammed with repetitive phrases - does your sister site have the same layout?

Your "keywords" tag is showing with some comma's missing which may be worth looking at and the words are again repeated many times - another Google frown.

Concerned with search engine placement I left my old non-Actinic pages alongside the Actinic ones with a link over to the new page (on the same domaine) - after about 3 months I was only picking up the Actinic pages under Google - the legacy pages have since been removed with no loss in placement for the majority of the site

[AsleepATheWheel]

Hi,

Just in case you hadn't noticed, those earlier posts are nearly a year and a half old, an eternity in the search engine world...

Paul

[Mike Hughes]

Yup. Things have moved on since then. Also my comments were prefaced with:

A few other things:

By which I meant they are in addition to the first three posts by prosite.

Your number one problem right now for google is that you just don't have enough important links to your site.

Mike

[prosite]

Google google google! arghhh

In october / november last year google updated to a new engine that they call florida update, this has caused many problems for new sites getting listed, some people are now saying upto eight months to get a site ranked, some sites that appeared at the top no longer even appear, so you are pretty lucky there. I would not hold too much to 'deep linking' whilst advisable there is no real information as to its nesacity (can't spell!) we submitted a site with one link from us back to them if you search they are number 2 on page 1 (in a week, UK search). So I am confused for this one. Also the relavancy of googles search results are being bought to peoples attention whilst the re-write of the MSN engine and Yahoo engine is providing people with good relevant results. (Yahoo incedently you are #11 on page2 'BT synergy cordless phone battery ') There have been rumours out there for some time that Google is deliberately holding back on new sites and refusing to rank them for quite a while, sometimes up to eight months or more. Perhaps pushing people to excesive Adword accounts.

Perserverance is the order of the day with google you are listed so good result there but for ranking of the pages expect a long wait, all the comments above are right you have over done it a little. Also in the top of your page just below the <body> tag try putting <h6>NETQUOTEVAR:PAGETITLE</h6> you will have to play a little, it is something that we are experimenting with at the moment, not sure if it will work but give it a go. we have one site that is consitently #4 in google UK using this method and has been live for 5 months.

In a nutshell dont blame actinic, they dont own google and can not determine your results but it is still bloody good for getting rankings. Just experiment a little give it time for google to look and rank the site then if after 3 months you have not changed position try again. Remember google indexes a billion sites so it aint going to happen overnight.

Hope that helps hang on in there paitence and experimentation is needed not a new e-com solution (or perhaps concertrate on MSN, Yahoo and tell everyone google is S"$£ and use the competition ;-) ).

Jez

[ajfish]

Jez,
Thanks for the post much appreciated.
Just a couple of things.
For that search string how come you found us on page two #11. Or was that page 11? I have just tried the same search and battery-shed.co.uk doesn't appear until page 16!
Can you explain the relevance of the <H6>tags and their location please.
I know I shouldn't blame Actinic. It's just that we have had the Actinic software for a number of years and the site has never done as well as the very dated looking watchbattery.co.uk. We get 5 times the orders on the latter. Just goes to show it isn't what the site looks like that matters, it's all about getting found. I am just so frustated with this. When I created the watchbattery.co.uk site 5 years ago I got good, consistently good rankings within months and the site is still doing well. Using the same philosophy I used then on other sites just doesn't seem to work any more. Has the age of the site got anything to do with ranking?

Andrew

[prosite]

Hi,

Yahoo
Ok yahoo.co.uk select a UK search and used 'BT synergy cordless phone battery' actually you are now #10 on page 1, it is your site map page that appears but you are there non the less. It just goes to show that search engines in my view are favouring links pages rather than anthing else.

However if you search for 'BT SYNERGY 900 Cordless Phone Battery' as per your page title you are #4 on page 1. again your site map page. Page 7 on google and the actual product page. Look at the site that appears on #1 and figure out the differances between your sites content.

MSN Engine read this
http://beta.search.msn.co.uk/docs/siteowner.aspx?FORM=WMDD2

H6 Tags,
Take a look at www.all4parrots.co.uk you will see on the top the page name being pulled in as the 1st thing on the actual page the engine will read if you search for any of those headings in a google UK search then the site is pretty much #4 However the other site, same customer differnet site is #1 but does not have the tags (surrey pet supplies)

Site Age
The Spets site has been out there for 12 months and the parrots about 5 Age of the site does have something to do with it, but if your site gets hits and is built correctly given time it should start to rank.

'Just goes to show it isn't what the site looks like that matters,'
As a web designer I would have to disagree ;-) but yes you are right there is no point in having a shop that can not be found but you have to ask can I get more business if the site looks better?. Actinic did some research and found that a site that was professionaly designed did 80% better check with them for exact details though that might be biast... But hey if its working why change?

I hate to say it but you are in for the long haul on this one if you are to be dis-heartend about anything google is your 1st point as they are getting slower (not surprosing considering the amount of pages they index) Secondly your own content, S E O is a black art and no one no matter what they tell you knows the answer. Only the developers at google really know what the score is and bottom line they are not going to let on. Read this article on PigeonRank http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html and you will see that they really are not going to let on. This might be a bit more relavent http://www.google.com/technology/

Good luck

Jez


"There are no facts, only interpretations"
Friedrich nietzsche

[ajfish]

Jez,
Thanks again....
Thanks for the links too.
I am still not sure what the <H6> tag thing is about. I checked the source code on your Parrots site and there is no evidence of <H6> tags? So I am now very confused. Should I see them there? Can you please explain again for me s l o w l y.

The watchbattery site, although dated still pulls in many more orders than the flashier looking battery shed site. The conversion rate (visitors to orders) is about 10% which is apparently very good for an e-commerce site. This seems to indicate that perhaps not too many are put off by the dated look and feel. If I could guarantee the same ranking within google I wouldn't hesitate to change it, but my living depends on sales which is directly proportional to the ranking within google (Well actually it's probably an inverse square relationship whereby if your google ranking drops by two your sales become 1/4 of what you had.)

Are you really a web site designer?
On your Parrots site do you see anything wrong with the following?:-
<TITLE>All 4 Parrots the ultiamte in shopping experiance for Parrots and Parakeets</TITLE>

Do you use a spell checker at all?


Andrew

[jont]

Jez,

<TITLE>All 4 Parrots the ultiamte in shopping experiance for Parrots and Parakeets</TITLE>

Do you use a spell checker at all?

I am sure both the Parrots or Parakeets won't be too fussed with the typo :D

[jont]

Andrew - it is an H5 tag at the top of the product page not a H6 tag - this H5 tag only appears the single time to put a description line as the first line on the page in very small text - this is good for search engines but does force a line above the site header (which is not consistent and is missing from the home page)

[ajfish]

Jont,
Arh I see now and understand... but why use H5? Why not H3 or even H2 and control the size with style sheets? This would be okay, particularly if the other Hx tags aren't used anywhere else on the site. I assume that higher the heading number the greater the possibility of being ranked higher if that word between the tags is used in the search phrase.
I think it's a good idea and I may try it with a few pages just to see what impact on the rankings for a particular search this has. I will report back!
However, I am begininig to wonder that if the site as a whole isn't "liked" by google, then I am not so sure if the keyword one concentrates on promoting will acually improve the rankings for that keyword on that site. Comments?

Andrew

[Faulkds]

I had a similar issue, but I'm currently optimising my site. First thing to do is get traffic to your site; You can buy hits to your site but I decided to use google adwords, and placed google ads on my site. You then need to link from a high PR ranking site to yours. Linking is very good for google but only link off high pr sites. My site was a PR 5 but dropped to a PR 4 when a none ranking site linked off my index page. Then its all about content and keywords, titles and meta tags. Have a look at my index page and you will see what i mean.... Use raw html and not frames or fancy flash.

My stats speak for themselves; I only really started to really work on the site since August. I now no longer use google to get my sales and have a site that’s just growing and growing.

Unique Visitors

Feb 2332

Mar 3084

Apr 2943

May 2664

Jun 2461

Jul 2055

Aug 1504

Sep 5263

Oct 6593

Nov 7265

Dec 6849

Jan 10198

Feb 6702

I have no where near finished yet and only a quarter of the way through the site. Its getting there but I understand your frustrations....

I have only revealed a small part of my optimisation scheme; at the end of the day we can’t all be on page one of google but with various key word combinations you can get some good relevant traffic to your site.

Darren
www.4-motorcycles.co.uk

[jont]

why use H5? Why not H3 or even H2

Search engines like and add weight to H1, H2 tags etc as they assume it must be something important as the H tags are generally quite large sizes and add emphasis to a page - I guess the H5 tag is used as you suggest as it is not being used elsewhere so it is safe to specify it as a very small font for the lead into a page

[prosite]

Are you really a web site designer?
On your Parrots site do you see anything wrong with the following?:-
<TITLE>All 4 Parrots the ultiamte in shopping experiance for Parrots and Parakeets</TITLE>

Do you use a spell checker at all?


Guess thats the day job, but an english teacher I am not as you can see from previous postings I accept my spelling leaves something to be desired esp when typing quickly. Besides do a search on google for ultiamte number 2 world wide, how many people miss type? Sometimes miss spelling of a domain, keywords etc, can bring great rewards, how do you spell batery anyway? Check out www.gogle.co.uk how much business are they getting off google.co.uk? it is just a listing site, bet they get a good roi on that. Maybe one of the tests you can do on your site is put deliberatly miss spelt products up.

The answer is no I do not use a spell checker. I will instruct the office to ensure one is used, anyhow thanks for bringing it to my attention and it is now changed.

Ok saw the other posts do you know what to do now? the reason for using an h5 or 6 is for the lower font size, but sure you can use a style sheet to control it. So long as you have a Header tag, as I say it is an experiment that I am trying, worth a go...

Best Jez

ps if you have time please take a look at our other sites for typos and I spoke to the parrots and they did not mind... :)

[phoenixfirework]

Hi olderscot

QUOTE "I embed the H1 and H2 tags in my templates so they highlight the appropriate bits (the section name for H1 tags and product name for h2 tags). These tags change the font size and boldness so I redefine them in the CSS file to make them look the way I want them."

Which template do you embed H1 tags in the section name and H2 tages in the product name.

I also want to put a H1 tag for page title on each page of product, can you tell me how you do that as well?

Sorry for all the questions, but iv'e been trying to solve it for ages and you help would be appriciated!

[jont]

section name for H1 tags

Edit Act_SectionLine.html

product name for h2 tags

Edit Act_ProductLIne.html (and and other variations you have in use) and look for NETQUOTEVAR : PRODUCTNAME

H1 tag for page title on each page of product

Edit Act_ProductBody.html and add in NETQUOTEVAR : PAGETITLE

**** note need to place spaces either side of the colons above as the forum with insert smileys - delete from code proper ****

HTH

[phoenixfirework]

Thanks Jont, works a dream.

One small question, I thought it would be better to H1 the PAGETITLE at the top of the page in the greyed out table, center column. an example page

http://www.phoenixfireworks.co.uk/acatalog/large_firework_display_packs.html

Here, in the center column top, is "large firework display packs" in grey.

what template do i add <h1> etc to the variable NETQUOTEVAR : PAGETITLE

And many thanks again for your help!

[jont]

Act_Primary.html

[jont]

Often worth disabling CSS ona page to check the cascade of header tags to ensure they are nesting correctly

[phoenixfirework]

Gret stuff Jont, many thanks again, this works well.