Who is to blame?

[bamboo]

Woolworths and MFI both fall into the arms of 'administration' later this evening so who is really to blame for their demise?
Is it the American banks for setting the crunch ball rolling by lending to people who they new would never be able to pay the money back?

Is it the two companies boards for being incompetent?

Is it the two companies banks for getting twitchy and calling in loans?

Is it the fault of Mr & Mrs Public who simply chose to spend their money elsewhere?

Or lastly is their imminent demise simply part of the boom and bust cycle that the market led economy seems to generate?

I've been trying to figure it out all day for no good reason other than trying to predict which 'big' company is going to the wall next. (A bit of a competition with my accountant if the truth be known) What do you think?

[leehack]

I think both of those companies have been on the downward slide for quite some time, long before the latest crunch. This is retail's natural cull and brands like theirs are welcome in the dustbin as far as i am concerned. They have a reputation and their name depicts a much bigger and more successful company than what they really are. If we see Marks & Sparks, Comet or an IKEA capitulate, it would have far further reaching consequences.

As to what caused it, many things, the facts that houses were earning more than their owners and the sub prime debts from the USA are big players IMO.

Just like in nature, when the slow or injured wildebeest get caught, leaving just the strongest to survive, this is a fantastic thing for retail IMO, because in 'boom' too much crap can survive. I want the best of the best, not a sea full of crap in other words.

The vat reductions recently announced are not for now IMO, they are more to kick-start sales in the future, once the recovery starts, just before the rates are returned back to normal.

[leehack]

Oh and the next big one will be Argos (I hope), then Cousins and for my last guess - DFS.

[bamboo]

I too fancy Argos as 'shopping for it' has become synonymous with 'shopping for crap' IMHO.
I would love DFS to fall simply to get rid of those annoying adverts.
Perhaps DFS will lead to a whole pack of sofa clones going south.

I agree that bad companies fail in 'harsh times' and so they should.
Do you fancy any of the big estate agents to go to the wall next?
I have an inside line to the housing market through a friendly mortgage advisor of my acquaintance and he said that his good buddy (who owns a tiny independent estate agency) has seen an increase of over 300% in the number of repossessions he is being asked to shift during the past month.
My money is on the Halifax estate agency being the first to go.

[guccij]

The only people to blame for the demise of Woollies and MFI are the companies' respective managements.

I haven't shopped in MFI for about 20 years - at around the point when Ikea stamped its big Scandinavian feet all over the UK home furnishings market. MFI didn't notice, didn't care, and is now rightly paying the price.

We have a Woolworth's near us. It's filthy. The stock is sh!te and piled up any old how. I've never bought pick and mix there since I saw a feral child putting its filthy paws and god knows what bodily fluids all over the sweets. Again, a company which didn't care about its customers and failed miserably over many years to adapt to a changing market.

No doubt some will blame the recession - not me. I shan't mourn their passing. Good riddance.

I'm sorry for the staff though - let down badly by a weak management.

I too hope DFS is next, along with DSG (Dixons as was), Argos, whoever own the FootLocker and similar, and Tesco (yeah I know, I can dream).

[george]

I saw a feral child putting its filthy paws

Thats harsh.

Oh, and I like Argos for a number of reasons.

*hurrah for the lower classes*

[TraceyHand]

Thats harsh.

Oh, and I like Argos for a number of reasons.

*hurrah for the lower classes*

ditto, G

:rolleyes:

[guccij]

*hurrah for the lower classes*Bet you don't vote Labour though ;)

[george]

Why would that be relevant? Seriously, I've missed any potential connection there. Please enlighten me.

[Mike Hughes]

Please enlighten me.

George going all polite and posh. A danger sign if ever I saw one.

Mike

[TraceyHand]

George going all polite and posh. A danger sign if ever I saw one.

Mike

I got scared and hid!

[Darren B]

Argos wont vanish soon, they have a system that works and to be honest i doubt it would work for others. One big plus for Argos is the reserve online thing.

Screwfix - opening all these argos type shops all over the place, they never seem to have what you want and have to order it in which can take a couple of weeks. So ermm order online as always, these places cost them a fortune in rent and rates

[grantglendinnin]

We're All To Blame.

[TraceyHand]

It was HIM

*points to the person sitting on her left*

[Mike Hughes]

points to the person sitting on her left*

* Hand ?

Mike

[IanSaunders]

I used to work for Woolworths technical support. A lot of my ex-colleagues and friends are losing jobs coming up to Christmas. It's very sad.

But yes, the rot had set in a long time ago. Horror stories about ants in the pick n mix. And that horrid suicide in the Penzance store not too long ago.

very sad.

[RuralWeb]

I think a lot more are going to go the way of Woolworths in the new year. I was talking to one of our bigger clients who supplies wine to most of the big hotels in london. Many are closing over christmas as people are not having christmas parties and most of thier rooms are empty - many are putting them on lastminute.com to try and get some bookings over christmas.

Another client in the metals trade is laying off all his staff in Russia as the metals business is collapsing fast and many of his competitors have already gone bust. So watch out for some big car names falling over!!

[bamboo]

I have had the occasional look at all those giant companies bleating for government aid in western countries and frankly many of them are very badly run. They seem to fund themselves on 'projections' that they give their stakeholders, usually big banks or banking consortiums, which in turn make 'signals' to the stock market.

They seem to completely ignore the fact no matter what 'it' is they are selling 'it' is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for 'it'.

Trouble with all this smoke and mirrors is when the wind blows these people can be seen for what they are... incompetent.
I honestly want to see a fast developing, short and deep recession as this will quickly take down a lot of these incompetents. Yes it will be painful for many but the benefit will be that we can return to worldwide growth very quickly with competent people leading the way.

Woolworths & MFI will disappear but from their bones some will be glean rich pickings IMHO.
At least the phone calls from 'PR' companies wanting something for nothing, delivered yesterday have dried up so every cloud... :)

[Jan]

Metals are in a bad way ATM. especially steel apparently, lots of disasters about to happen there.

I love Woolworths, I've been shopping there for 40 years now (not the same transaction before you say it ;-)) my local branches are clean and well organised, and I will be really sorry to see them close.

We are seeing a lot more customers go under as well, two in one week a in November.

Regards,

[RuralWeb]

Im only sorry that they didnt let a couple of banks go bust - it would have sent a message to the others to sort thier acts out. Trouble is now they have our money they are going back to thier old ways - Ive no mortgage but I have savings so a zero % interest rate is no good to me:mad:

[RuralWeb]

I saw my first actinic business up for sale the other day http://www.drroots.co.uk/

[bamboo]

I understand why it's up for sale. Any business with Google Ads in its banner and atop the site navigation is sending out the wrong message to customers IMHO, unless they are in the throes of desperation

An opportunity? Possibly. If I get an hour free this weekend I'll do a bit of market research and see if it's worth a punt and report back on here.

Current info.
Pagerank 2/10
Alexa Rating 2,683,863
Backlinks 77 in Yahoo
126 pages indexed in Google

They also have this site for sale which could also be worth a shot.
http://www.visiblyyounger.co.uk/

No Pagerank
No Alexa Rating
Backlinks 7 in Yahoo
122 pages indexed in Google

[RuralWeb]

Any business with Google Ads in its banner and atop the site navigation is sending out the wrong message to customers IMHO,
The ads only went up when the site closed down - it was a pretty busy site IIRC - my wife used to spend a small fortune on it:eek:

[OriginalTouch]

We supply industry and this has been coming for a long time - not just the credit crunch / media hype. The day we lost it was when our major industries began to manufacture abroad cos it was cheaper (even if there was less tape and lower wages). If we ran the country like a company, then our national income wouldnt be shipped abroad - our country has been generating income between ourselves in house for ages - services industries and financial institutions - then we wonder why the banks get in trouble and the whole country goes down - ha hum!

[grantglendinnin]

I think Woolworths downfall was the introduction of the 'Big Red Book' when they bit off more than they could chew.

A relative both works for and has quite a bit of cash in Woolies shares. Sorry, had shares.

The brand Woolworths goes synonymously with pick 'n' mix (not anything they had in the Big Red Book, which was subsequently dumped earlier this year). Pick 'n' mix is very profitable (huge margins) - but unfortunately is synonymous with 'buy none, get one free' and 'try before you buy' sales.

Whatever next. A few of the biggest household names have gone down the tubes so far this year. Next year it makes you wonder - which one (or, god forbid, more) of the supermarket chains will go in 2009.

Many businesses we deal with on an every day occurrence (obviously in store, not online) have gone bust in the current climate. At the end of the day, their business is gone - nobody can afford to pay somebody to tidy up their garden. Unfortunately for people in this business sector, those who can afford it are as tight as a ducks arse, worried in case the Government take another couple of pennies from them.

So when does a British Barack Obama come along?

[pnagames]

woollies and MFI had it coming. although the current situation halped, imho its their incompetent management that put them on the administration.

they went there because they had huge loans (at least woollies). so they either borrowed to expand or (more likely) to cover the losses they were making every month.

who in their right f****g mind ignore monthly losses and prefers to loan from the bank???

on another subject, one my suppliers went into administration and there are rumors about another two going into administration soon as well.

the first one is a mystery why they ended up there. the second / third is understandable.

[RuralWeb]

ANC are telling us that they are very worried about account holders going bust after christmas.

[Darren B]

ANC are telling us that they are very worried about account holders going bust after christmas.

A number of our suppliers have mentioned that some of their account customers are now on proforma. Specifically the conservatory market, we bridge more than one segment and as such have not had anyone put us on proforma, mind you this time of year stocks are lower and spending is lower.

As for the kites, they are still doing well and the best thing. I dont owe anyone anything. Everything is paid for IMHO its the only way to make it through a recession, The less people you owe money to the easier it is to survive.

[bentleybloke]

I use(d) Woolies as a warm short cut between two streets in town. It used to be quite interesting to walk through, but they lost the plot on the multi hundred thousand refit when they started selling crappy electricals and twirled all the shelving at stupid angles... Think the last thing I bought in there was a massive 6 cup tea pot in about 1999.

I stopped shopping in MFI when they tried to sell me a wardrobe which wasn't deep enough to get a coat hanger in!

[chris ashdown]

I understand the banks close down most companies in the first two weeks of January

The reason is that most retail companies have their best time on the run up to Christmas and therefore their accounts show the least debt to the bank in January, and as many companies pay the HMRC at the end of the month the first two weeks are the best time to get the most dosh back before they pay for new stock, pay their bills and pay HMRC


Regarding woolworth,they just lost the plot trying to be a bit of everything but master of none, great at Easter for Eggs but what else

[Mike Hughes]

and as many companies pay the HMRC at the end of the month the first two weeks are the best time to get the most dosh back before they pay for new stock, pay their bills and pay HMRC


HMRC come top of the list of people who must be paid. Ahead of the banks and anyone else.

Mike