Bandwidth usage, recommendation, believable?

[Paul Bulpit]

Dear friends, believe me I've searched - doing my head in today and need your help and assistance, please.

Sometime last night our host decided that our V7 website was the cause of their server crashing, and suspended our domain. This was not nice, as we knew from copy emails (rec'd elsewhere) that there were sixty orders to download, from the week-end, and as Mondays are busy for this reason, we had five staff on hand with nothing to do. We could pick from the emails, but didn't have the payments.

We go through a reseller (who is very helpful) but he hasn't told us who the host actually is - he moved us at Xmas '07 due to earlier problems.... Give him his due, he did get us up again today so we could crack on.

Our site is Rainbow Florist Supplies (http://www.rainbowfloristsupplies.co.uk) and the issue is this:

1) We were suspended for exceeding bandwidth quota at 29Gb. Reseller said this was huge, any comments, folks? I think this is, per month.

2) (a) I searched the forum this morning and found a thread which seemed to apply to us. (http://community.actinic.com/showthread.php?t=40651&highlight=bandwidth) The script, I think, is the old Smart theme cgi-bin script - we converted to hard coding as this was deemed BAD for SEO - so I have now removed it from the templates.

(b) As deemed BETTER for SEO, we have also been converting to SPP.

The reseller commented (not knowing this) ...you use about 28Gb of bandwidth a month which is a huge amount. I have taken a peek at your images and they seem to be OK for size, but as far as I can see the problem is that Actinic creates a new page per product or service duplicating a lot of the information on the page rather than using includes to resue information.

I deleted the script, explained the SPP - he tells me this is NOT the problem. Does this sound right?

Now this may be the subject of a new thread, but he's telling me to migrate to a VPS with CS New Media. I can't find very much positive on the 'net about this outfit; nothing at all on the forum; and to cap it all, CS N M have emailed an account login, to pay the upfront fee, which doesn't work.

So not a good start - any advice gratefully listend to.

[Darren B]

Paul i dont think its really the bandwidth causing the server to crash. last year i had similar issues with a site. (If they did suspend you for that amount of bandwidth pack your bags)

Corrupted scripts were eating server resources unfortunately this resulted in the site being suspended, Unfortunately for my client it had the same impact as you. A few weeks after we brought a new server online and this has a number of actinic sites on it but the resources being used are virtually none, i lost a client due to this problem with the corrupted scripts and a site refresh is all that is required.

Is is likely to happen to someone else with another host, most definately IMHO.

The biggest problem is you lost your site for a few hours, suspension is just that, all your files are still there including the orders but from a hosting point of view they were protecting all their other clients, i know how i would feel when my site is down - trust me i really know, but you have to make the decision, if your bandwidth is that high and you have a reasonable number of orders then perhaps you should be looking at a VSP or dedicated server, perhaps shared dedicated even your own reseller account.

[Duncan Rounding]

Act_section_tree can certainly consume large amounts of bandwidth.

Have you looked at your site stats? You can work out roughly what usage you might expect from them.

As an example...

Take the number of page views and multipy by say 250K, now add the number number of unique vistiors multiplied by say 750Kb. This should give you a ball park figure for your bandwidth. (It's late though so check my figures)

[RuralWeb]

I don't think the bandwidth is that excessive. Many shared hosts allow upto 150 mb but as darren says there comes a time when websites get so busy they need a dedicated server but I don't think you are there yet. Move hosts.

[pinbrook]

Whether or not the monthly bandwidth of 29gb is correct for your site depends on lots of issues and is best analysed by someone knowledgeable. But speaking as a host my feeling is a site that does that amount of traffic shouldn't really be on a shared platform, this is for the benefit of the site and the benefit of the other sites on the server.

To suspend your site for using excess bandwidth is unfair, you should have been given notice and an option to upgrade. Darren is correct to suggest it was a corrupt script, we've seen this happen with actinic sites, although to be fair i think i've only seen it twice in the last 5 years - but it happens. the corrupt scripts eats the server and the only resolution is to kill the site (the best way to do this is to isolate the offending script and neutralise it so the rest of the site ie order files are still downloadable). A site refresh is often all that is required to remedy (unless the problem was caused by a coding mod).

[Paul Bulpit]

I am amazed at such prompt responses from four highly respected members and sincerely thank you all for your input.

In particular, Jo, with an axe to grind - and Darren, who now offers hosting I believe. Duncan, our paths have crossed - you're a brick. Malcolm, your opinions are highly respected, a pillar of the community.

So, you don't think 29Gb is excessive, the hosts actions were unreasonable....

[Darren] suggests a VSP - any recommendations?

[Duncan] I've never been able to access Stats & wouldn't know what to do with them, anyway. Reading threads today, I have tried to get such information - maybe, maybe not, for whatever reason (site down) - my reseller gave me a link, login & password to them, the results were meaningless. Queried this, he said 'click on the exception button' but I did not know what this meant, I could not see one. I have read enough on this forum over the last three years - you all talk about it but where is it?

[Malcolm] Point taken - where to? I see your link but am not yet convinced.

[Jo] This may be the most important reply, as you are the expert.

Sleeping on it.
Many thanks, all.

[RuralWeb]

As to where to go - I have given up on that age old debate sorry

You really need to get analytics fitted to your site as it is indipendant of your host. IMO every website should have it - it gets better every month.

[Duncan Rounding]

Complately agree with Mal, adding GA is what you should be doing.
You will then have all the info you can imagine about your site at your finger tips.
All it will take at a minimum is a little bit of code added to the Act_Primary and Act_Brochure templates.

PS - looks like they've killed your site again. Try a purge and refresh in the meantime while you look for another host.

[pinbrook]

So, you don't think 29Gb is excessive, the hosts actions were unreasonable.... We host actinic sites that vary in bandwidth from little over zero gb per month to some that are doing over 100gb. Bandwidth usage depends on lots of stuff including how your site is structured, order number, visitor number etc. The important thing is to have appropriate hosting for the site. As i mentioned earlier i would not recommend a site which does 29gb pm to be on a shared platform. VSP is the intermediary stage between shared and dedicated. As for your host being unreasonable? Yes unreasonable if they simply pulled the plug because of the bandwidth, they should have given you the option to upgrade. But if the site was using excessive processing power caused by a rogue script their action was acceptable.

[Duncan] I've never been able to access Stats & wouldn't know what to do with them, anyway. Reading threads today, I have tried to get such information - maybe, maybe not, for whatever reason (site down) - my reseller gave me a link, login & password to them, the results were meaningless. Queried this, he said 'click on the exception button' but I did not know what this meant, I could not see one. I have read enough on this forum over the last three years - you all talk about it but where is it?if you approach new hosts you may be able to ask them to look at the stats with a view to spec-ing and quoting for new server space

[Paul Bulpit]

PS - looks like they've killed your site again. Try a purge and refresh in the meantime while you look for another host.

Yep! Had to plead with the reseller to get it up for a bit so we could retrieve orders. Then he actioned emergency tactics and we were migrated overnight to a VPS, except for a number of reasons I didn't know that this was happening. (The main reason being, we didn't have any email). A few minor problems as the DNS resolved but we seem to be back in business.

Jo, do you do a VPS? I see an unlimited plan on your website, is that the same thing?

Actually, I'm not convinced that I need it yet, but without stats I can't tell what's going on. We've been removed from Google today, I wonder if there is a connection, like being hacked.

[RuralWeb]

We've been removed from Google today, I wonder if there is a connection, like being hacked.VERY odd.....

[Paul Bulpit]

Any further comment, Mal?

Reviewing this thread perhaps I can add:

I have finally got the reseller to divulge that we were hosted with CS New Media. Comments above suggest moving away.

In order to take action, the reseller organised the VPS - but this is also with CSNM, so that action could be taken speedily.

It's only a month at a time and seems very pricey......

Hadn't thought of the purge & refresh, running that now. Thanks for all the input.

[guccij]

Just checked what my Business Pro package with 1and1 allows for in terms of traffic. It's 100GB a month.

Don't think we ever get near that tbh but if we do, then, and I quote: "In the unlikely event your monthly traffic allowance is exceeded, 1&1 do not stop any further traffic usage. Instead, we charge customers 99p per Gigabyte of additional traffic used."

Bus. Pro from 1and1 costs £14.99 + Vat a month. How does this compare to yours?

[Paul Bulpit]

How does this compare to yours?

A fraction - £155 per month reduced from £175 as the reseller forgoes his cut. Plus a setup fee.

I won't be staying where I am for very long, but at least it got us out of the hole. But it does make me wonder who dug the hole we fell into.

[RuralWeb]

Any further comment, Mal?
very very odd;)

[pinbrook]

Jo, do you do a VPS? I see an unlimited plan on your website, is that the same thing?
our equivilent is 1/4 server - link in signature

[Paul Bulpit]

Hmmm, many thanks, is that what I need?

Comparable, but I fear OTT. I am having huge trouble getting to grips with the possibility that my little website (30 orders/day) really needs this.



BTW there is a rogue mgb on that page, great cars they were, is it a convertible or a fastback? (PB Pro 5; then Pro 10 weighs the same as two paracetamol).

[Darren B]

A fraction - £155 per month reduced from £175 as the reseller forgoes his cut. Plus a setup fee.

I won't be staying where I am for very long, but at least it got us out of the hole. But it does make me wonder who dug the hole we fell into.

Is this what they are charging you, then look at Jo's part share dedicated thingy, i could offer you a dedicated for less than £175, but if im honest its over the top for your requirements and only a bit cheaper ;)

[RuralWeb]

I run most of my sites on WebFusion pro at £5 per month and they all have more activity than yours so that's what I would suggest. Link and network settings on my website

[Paul Bulpit]

Is this what they are charging you, then look at Jo's part share dedicated thingy

I did, and it's comparable. So is yours, but as you say, OTT.

I run most of my sites on WebFusion pro at £5 per month and they all have more activity than yours so that's what I would suggest. Link and network settings on my website

Looked at that as well - the reseller is slagging WF off! He said put it into Big G and look at the complaints. (I haven't........)

but then YOU said you weren't going to make any recommendations!

I pointed out to him, CSNM=£150, WebFusion=£15! And I looked at WF first as I found them elsewhere on the forum.

Mal, I know you have a lot of sites - when you mention activity, how do they compare with my 60 orders over a week-end? Presumably you have access to relevant stats that I do not (currently - but I'm learning).

I do appreciate all of your responses and sincerely hope that this thread may help others when it's done.





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[RuralWeb]

True but I'm in a good mood after booking a weekends racing round the isle of man tt circuit.

I wish there was an option of the forum to ignore posts with certain keywords in the post - hosting and network settings would be my first entries

[Paul Bulpit]

True but I'm in a good mood after booking a weekends racing round the isle of man tt circuit.

I wish there was an option of the forum to ignore posts with certain keywords in the post - hosting and network settings would be my first entries

You cynic!

You know that we all love and respect your input, we all know that you are busy (a very good sign) and also we respect that you have a life, good luck to you, way-to-go.

But you do seem to be an expert in your field and your comments are much appreciated by all, even if they are sometimes lacking in detail.

Is that racing on a bike, or in your Caterham?

Best wishes and please post the photos!

(Actually, galleries are a little lacking on this forum?)




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[RuralWeb]

Caterham - busy year this year as I'm staying in country for the summer so the car is going to get a real hammering.

[Darren B]

I feel sick :D

[RuralWeb]

Not as sick as I will feel on the ferry I bet

[Paul Bulpit]

I remember going a bit green on the IOM ferry when I was sixteen, only time I've ever been there - school trip, cadet force, camped on a beach.

We've been in touch with Big G and they have supplied a spreadsheet listing nearly a thousand spurious files and errors. Ho hum.

[Mike Hughes]

If you don't know what level of hosting you need and don't have any access to some web stats then I'd suggest signing up with statcounter (http://www.statcounter.com/).

It's free and all you need to do is add a little bit of code at the bottom of your website. You'll then be able to see how many visitors and page views you're getting and that'll help you decide what level of hosting you should be looking at.

Mike

[Darren B]

Not as sick as I will feel on the ferry I bet

Ferries hmmmm never really had much problem with them, but is it me as you get older they seem to make you feel ill easier, its a bit like the wirlitzer things at the fair i had no problems when i was younger but these days they make me sick

[Paul Bulpit]

Thanks Mike.

I've been discussing the issue with my reseller, who said:

Actinic has it’s own “back doors” that can be exploited by anyone who knows how.

Is that a fact?

(This was with reference to how these spurious files got themselves onto my domain).



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[Mike Hughes]

I wouldn't listen to your reseller. It sounds to me like he's making stuff up.

I don't know what kind of files you have on the server but I would suspend ordering, download any orders then clear everything off the server and start afresh.

Make sure you change your hosting and ftp password.

After this I would do a fresh upload of Actinic with a statcounter on the pages to see what kind of traffic you're getting.

As soon as I got a reasonable idea of traffic levels I would move host. I wouldn't have much confidence in the one your using now.

Mike

[RuralWeb]

Very very odd. I've never seen google remove as site like that unless they suspect some black hat seo going on. It will have certainly killed your traffic now - I would move hosts immediately and make sure the contents of the old server are deleted. Once that's done flak to big g and explain what you have done and they should reindex you.

Your reseller is as mike says talking bollocks.

[Darren B]

i was going to reply but both Mal and Mike have said pretty much what i would have about your host