Lavora Marketing

[grantglendinnin]

You guessed it, another bunch of scam artists.

Just received a telephone call from somebody from 'Lavora Marketing', they did the usual "I'm ripping you off" talk where they talk so fast you've got no chance of hearing every word they say. Y'all know what I mean.

£136+VAT +£20 activation fee to get my site "to the top of Google search" within 48 hours - guaranteed to be at the top for the next month, into the second month, for only £136+VAT + £20.

What keyword was this for? "Hot tubs kirkcaldy" (pronounced terribly)

A) We're not in Kirkcaldy.
B) Kirkcaldy isn't exactly famed for its wealth imo. (Your Prime Minister, need I say more?)
C) Credit crunch? Fat chance of selling one of those imo.

Apparently this keyword got 700 searches last week. Bollocks to that.

I decided to butt-in and stop this idiot rambling a load of crap. At this stage Adwords was never mentioned. I explained I'm with the 'time=money' philosophy, so why would I pay £160 to sit at the top of Google for a month when I could sit for a couple of days doing SEO work and get that ranking on a much more permanent basis, rather than spend £160 on Adwords. And why would I pay him £20 for literally a maximum of 5 minutes of his time when I could do it myself. "Uh, em, hmm, erm, well, hmm. Are you really not interested sir?" "No, not at all, I don't agree with any of your company ethics" "Uhh"...and then the phone went dead:rolleyes: Withheld number too. Ideal for prank phone calls if you're that way inclined: 0161 924 2190.

This lot could keep me amused all day, no rest for the wicked:D

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

Many unhappy customers discussing them here: http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/01619242190

[grantglendinnin]

LOL - Nice one Darren. Funny how the guy first introduced himself as an employee of Google. One of the girls answered the phone and said "there's a guy from Google on the phone" - when I picked it up, after his ramble I asked what his company were called. He then said Lavora Advertising.

Sooner they go bust the better.

[CymraegKev]

Yep, complete bunch of cowboys (mind you, there are a lot of them about in that market!). I've just (well, about two weeks ago), spoke to a client of mine who was nearly reeled in by these guys.

[grantglendinnin]

Yep and unfortunately it's those that own websites but know nothing of SEO that are duped by these idiots. IMO Adwords is nothing but a vicious cycle and I wouldn't dare spend a penny on it.

[bamboo]

Don't be so quick to dismiss Adwords. There is no faster more accurate way of proving if a market exists for what you are intending to sell, if you run the right tests of course.

Also you have to work out the true cost of customer acquisition through Adwords. Say it costs you £1 in Adwords costs for every converting customer that lands on your site from your ad. A lot of people will not convert for a whole variety of reasons but over time you should be able to identify why the majority are not buying & increase the conversion rate by removing the obstacles you discover.
Sorry I digressed.
So each converting customer costs you £1 to get and you make 10p net profit from each converting customer then all you have to do is ratchet up the numbers of customers who convert.

This of course requires a "strict testing with constant improvement" business system to be in place and fully understood by the people actually doing the work but it can be done and indeed is done by many, many successful etailers whether they are selling goods, service or information.

The fact so many people are so bad at it is a damn good thing. You do not have to get very good at Adwords to knock these competitors out of the contest.

Most people think that an Adwords ad is meant to sell but that is the wrong approach. The sole purpose of an Adwords ad or even an organic listing is to get the visitor to click through to the right page within the website (NOT THE HOMEPAGE) which is where the selling should take place.

EDIT: The landing page is where most Adwords advertisers lose their customers but of course they blame Adwords because it is much easier to blame a third party than oneself :)

As for Lavora. What a shower of brown stuff. The muppets offer website design and yet their own website is designed by another company.
However kudos to the OP for dealing with them in a such a courteous and educational manner.

[Coach4Confidenc]

I was sold a months trial by LAVORA MARKETING for my small business to be on the first page of google, which seemed an outrageous claim but they promised that by defining my type of business to the area where they had noticed a huge increase in public interest they would guarantee my place on a first page. Despite being hand-picked to register for 4 areas of London and Milton Keynes, my website was NEVER visible using the keywords they suggested. I spoke with them on the phone whilst doing the searches they suggested and could not find my website. They told me I had too many cookies on my computer and they would reset it for me!.:rolleyes:...still nothing. I want my money back!!

[CymraegKev]

They told me I had too many cookies on my computer

Sounds like they have had one too many cookies themselves.

Get your money back.

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

An unhappy customer on another forum got a promise of a refund after contacting Trading Standard, etc, but I suspect getting a refund is not going to be easy without persistence.http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=85472&page=5

[VWP]

Avoid this company!! Do not give them any credit details.

I was lured in by their claim to "save up to 70% off Google Adverising" and signed up for a trial period. I never recieved a contract but I did give them my debit card details. After a month or so, although my ad was posted, I requested that they substantiate their claims of saving me money but no data was forthcoming. In the meantime they had debited my card for further money. When I asked to cancel I was told to put my request in writing which I duely did. The following two months more money was taken out. I then cancelled my card to prevent this action and received some nasty letters threatening action.......

This seems a common complaint with this company - if only I read the forums...

[gabrielcrowe]

open invitation to lavora:

call me, i need adwords.

[PHD-Media]

Hi All, I have had a few crossings with this company over the past year or so.

They tried to sell me Pay Per Click to boost my website traffic ( I don't think they researched my company before hand :rolleyes:)

After spending a good 20 minutes telling them I specialise in SEO and Marketing they finally gave in. :D

It drives me mad 'Marketing Companies' ripping the small people off!

We all have been there, desperate to find new clients and gain more interest, you sometime believe they can do this for you. :confused:

Scam isn't the word! :mad:

If you want 'FREE' advice on SEO/Marketing please contact me, I will help you out the best I can. :D

Take Care.

[foyle3]

Put down the phone - I too fell for these scambags. Lavora was never mentioned during the call - Google google google - thay must be proud of Lavora. Cancelled card but too late - "A direct debit may have been set up". By post an "agreement" to which I had not agreed mentioned direct debit ad much else for the first time. Tried to cancel whole thing - "you have no cooling off period as this is a business to business transaction" ( we got your money ha ha ha). Trading Standards confirmed this. They then put the wrong search terms on the wrong country search engine!!!! Surprisingly no business has been generated. To claim back money you have to prove they did not provide the service promised. In writing they promise almost nothing - getting your ad on the search for five seconds a day would fulfil their undertaking. n Don't just ignore Lavora Marketing tell everybody you know about Lavora Marketing - put the scambags out of their miserable thieving business.

[Mike Hughes]

I guess the concensus view is fairly damning then. If anyone has something good to say about Lavora then this might be the place to say it.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who might be thinking about using Lavora marketing who'd be interested in this thread. I wonder what kind of phrases they might use to try and find it?

- Lavora Marketing sucks?
- Should I use Lavora Marketing?
- Are Lavora Marketing any good?
- Are Lavora Marketing worth the money?

Mike

[gabrielcrowe]

we smell of cabbage (http://www.lavoramarketing.com/)

^ This is better. I'd love them to come high in google for this.

[fergusw]

Fire off a story request to watchdog (http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/)

[Jane123]

I was sold a months trial by LAVORA MARKETING for my small business to be on the first page of google, which seemed an outrageous claim but they promised that by defining my type of business to the area where they had noticed a huge increase in public interest they would guarantee my place on a first page. Despite being hand-picked to register for 4 areas of London and Milton Keynes, my website was NEVER visible using the keywords they suggested. I spoke with them on the phone whilst doing the searches they suggested and could not find my website. They told me I had too many cookies on my computer and they would reset it for me!.:rolleyes:...still nothing. I want my money back!!

This company called Lavora Marketing telephoned us in May promising us how they could increase and expand our business opportunites.It all sounded to good to be true.
They promised to put us on front page of google and said that they would be able to do this by using adwords and key phases. We were told it would cost £136 for the trial period and if it didn't work we were under no obligation to continue the service. We were very reluctant to give our credit card details and the guy on the phone said he wanted to reassure us that they were not able to take the money again without s[peaking to us as Lavora would need to take the card details again with our authorisation. He also stated he would call back before the end of the month to see how things had gone for us.

The whole thing was a waste of time and was waiting for him to call to tell him the service was a total waste of money. However, we had no phone call and was not concerned as we had not entered a contract.
On the 1st June we noticed we had been charged again by Lavora for another month, although we had not agreed to this.
We called them only to be fobbed off time and time again, they stated that we had a contract with them and if we no longer wanted we had to put in writing to give 30 days notice.

We have sent e-mail and that have been ignored, left messages and requested call backs that have been ignored and sent letters in writing ( complained and gave notice) and yes again they have been ignored.
When we finally spoke to a representative of the company, he told us Lavora could not refund the money (we know this was a lie as we had spoke to our bank earlier ) furthermore, he told us that the key words we had were not working for us. I told him that Lavora chose the key phases and NOT us.
We clearly stated we were not happy as we were supposed to be paying for this and they were supposed to be the experts.. He also said there must be something wrong with our website, but we advised him clearly we know there was nothing wrong with it as we were getting hits on it from other sources.

We were bullied into continnuing this again for June as they would not take no for an answer, but again was reassured that as long as we called before the last 2 days of June we would not have to carry on for July. We called back as advised before the end of July as we did not want to carry on with this scam and was now told we had to put it in writing as it was a legal binding contract although we have never signed for it, he stated business to business was different.
They also denied what they had said in the discussion we had earlier in the month. We suggested they listen to the telephone calls
We advised they had already failed to uphold their side of the contract as they failed to advise (e-mail) us they were taking money off our credit card for June. They state in their FAQ's as they are unable to contact all their customers they give notice via an e-mail 48 hrs before any money is taken.

So were back to where we started, cant get our money refunded, cant get them to cancel this pathetic scam they have going each month and peolpe in there offices that are just not prepared to listen and will not take no for an answer.
We advised them this is nothing more than a money making scam and they were taking money from peolpe by deception and its was nothing less than fraud. We also told them this company needs to be investigated and if it was a legitimate company as its head office address does not sound credible.
He seemed a little suprised by this and stated that they were ( yeh right).

We like others have had to go to the extreme and completely stop our credit card so they dont take any further monies. We have since received nasty letters. We have also spoke to another memeber of staff their and said if we had a complaint we would need to put in writing.....AAHHH.
We then replied to ask how thick & dense Lavora are, the letters we have sent are all complaints (moran)....
we just refuse to acknowledge this company again and now they can have a taste of their own medicine.

We have been trying to seek legal advice.
There seems to be a lot of legal advice for consumer's but not for business to business. As we are only a small family run business this has been very daunting and an experience one can never forget. A very big learning curve for us. Its made us very wary now about any marketing companies.

Anyone who comes in contact with this company, please...please...please put the phone back down...this is a scam..although C.A.B couldn't really help us they even said it was a scam....Please BEWARE.

[CymraegKev]

I'd go to trading standards and/or the police if I were you Jane (and others).

[CymraegKev]

If you put Lavora Marketing into Google, this thread is the third entry. I'm guessing they will not be getting too much business themselves from Google generated links in the future.

[Chunkford]

It's so annoying that it's these b#@t%$ds that give the rest a bad name.

[Jane123]

I'd go to trading standards and/or the police if I were you Jane (and others).



I agree I think they need to be investigated and do feel they need to reported to the police. If anyone wants to pursue the matter further but does not want to do alone please get in touch. :mad:

[cbarling]

This all sounds pretty appalling.

I did some rooting around. The directors are:

Natalie Wheeldon, The Oranges, 28 Bradgate Road, Altrincham, Cheshire, WA14 4QU

Michael Damartiis, same address

These guys are also the owners of the company. This is all part of the public record at Companies House.

Ways that you can tackle this sort of thing are:

- small claims court. If enough people filed claims they might take some notice. If they don't file a defense, the court will automatically find in your favour. After that, if they don't pay your claim, you can send in the bailiffs. Under this route, they have to work as hard as you, else they lose.

- complain to Trading Standards, as mentioned. Again, the more complaints the merrier. Trading Standards, Turnpike House, 631 Eccles New Road, SALFORD, M5 2SH, Telephone: 0161 925 1346 should be able to tell you which is the correct office if they are not.

- take a copy of letters that you have sent to them, then write to your card issuer asking for a chargeback based on their refusal to return money that should not have been taken. If enough people do this, then their merchant status could be under threat.

- if what has been described in this thread is precisely true, it sounds like fraud to me. That is, taking money from a card account without any agreement to do so on a deliberate basis. Presumably if enough people contacted Altrincham police, they might take action. Altrincham Police Station, Barrington Rd, Altrincham, Cheshire WA14 1HZ, Tel: 0161 872 5050

- you might wish to write to the directors at their home address above.

Incidentally, I couldn't see anywhere on their web site that they stated that they were a limited liability company. Might be worth taking some screen grabs of that. I believe that under those circumstances, the directors may make themselves personally liable to any actions against the company.

Chris

[guccij]

Everything about Lavora Marketing makes me want to scream. Their carefully worded "online marketing agreement" is deliberately tucked away in a barely-legible link. And I bet Lavora Marketing don't read you out those terms and conditions when they make their sales pitch.
Lavora Marketing makes it sound as if the client has chosen the key words - and I quote "[the buyer's] chosen key phrases" - yet from what we read, it is Lavora which chooses these for the client.
There are lots of ways to take Lavora Marketing to task. Chris's post is brilliant. I hope someone is brave enough to take Lavora Marketing to the cleaners.
;)

[Jane123]

This all sounds pretty appalling.

I did some rooting around. The directors are:

Natalie Wheeldon, The Oranges, 28 Bradgate Road, Altrincham, Cheshire, WA14 4QU

Michael Damartiis, same address

These guys are also the owners of the company. This is all part of the public record at Companies House.

Ways that you can tackle this sort of thing are:

- small claims court. If enough people filed claims they might take some notice. If they don't file a defense, the court will automatically find in your favour. After that, if they don't pay your claim, you can send in the bailiffs. Under this route, they have to work as hard as you, else they lose.

- complain to Trading Standards, as mentioned. Again, the more complaints the merrier. Trading Standards, Turnpike House, 631 Eccles New Road, SALFORD, M5 2SH, Telephone: 0161 925 1346 should be able to tell you which is the correct office if they are not.

- take a copy of letters that you have sent to them, then write to your card issuer asking for a chargeback based on their refusal to return money that should not have been taken. If enough people do this, then their merchant status could be under threat.

- if what has been described in this thread is precisely true, it sounds like fraud to me. That is, taking money from a card account without any agreement to do so on a deliberate basis. Presumably if enough people contacted Altrincham police, they might take action. Altrincham Police Station, Barrington Rd, Altrincham, Cheshire WA14 1HZ, Tel: 0161 872 5050

- you might wish to write to the directors at their home address above.

Incidentally, I couldn't see anywhere on their web site that they stated that they were a limited liability company. Might be worth taking some screen grabs of that. I believe that under those circumstances, the directors may make themselves personally liable to any actions against the company.

Chris

Many thanks Chris I will pusue this further.
We have already stopped our credit card so they can no longer get anymore monies from us, but were are still getting letters requesting the payment for July. I have e-mailed them how they have the nerve to ask for this when were no longer listed. Just trying to get our money back now.

[richardalun60]

Having read the comments I agree and have already taken out a County Court Sumonse, they have to date paid back half my fee and court costs. I would welcome any member telling of their experiences to me, if you put your name and address on an e;mail to me they can be submitted to court as evidence that they are not the honourable company they claim to be and I will get the rest of the conned money back, and you can go through the same procedure and get your money back. I would appreciate any comments by e;mail to me on alun@execclub.net great site should get the con artists eventually regards Alun

[parklifeclothes]

I feel like we had a lucky escape, we were targeted ages ago and spent about an hour or more arguing with them, they make out you cannot live without them. Promised we would be top of adwords for any given keyword any and everyday.
What they failed to see was I could be top myself without them using my own adwords account, there is nothing they do that any of us site owners can't do. I actually said I could outbid them and be above them on adwords and they would then be in breach of their contract, was told I would be in breach as the contract stated I could not use the same or similar adwords as them, in other words, compete with them.

Thankfully no longer using adwords our calls from 'marketing' companies have pretty much dried up but whenever they do call they are told NO, and not even listened to.

[Dman]

Lots of people call me to put us on the front page of Google...

Ignore this type of thing because:
1. They dont run Google - it's not up to them whats on the front page
2. Its not magic - they don't have the secret key to success
3. You can do it yourself - it pays to make an effort to learn how Google works!

Do you know how these charlatans found us - we were on the front page of Google!

People I know have done this against my advice, and months later all grumble about what a waste of money it was. However, they weren't willing to read up on Search Engine Optimisation (SEO) and doing some thinking about keywords (which you should do from the customers perspective - what they are looking for - rather than your perspective - what you are selling).

If you go for a quick fix and delegate this kind of thing - expect to get a disappointing result.

[party_pete]

This is a great video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7P_f8VRsjU

[Chunkford]

Pete..... that's priceless

[pnagames]

This is a great video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7P_f8VRsjU

weird thing

none of their sales staff sits down (its probably because they are upset that nobody wants to sign with them and they will not get any commission) :p

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

I thought this website was very fitting: http://lavoramarketing.info/

[jont]

This is a great video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7P_f8VRsjU

Everyone should ask for Sarah Collinge UK After Sales Manager

[guccij]

Would you work for someone who looked and talked like a potato?

Lavora is crying out for infiltration. I wonder how secure their systems are. Hmm.

[Benjamin Dyer]

Thanks Pete, I was wondering when The Office was going to return to our screens.

[grantglendinnin]

Thanks Pete, I was wondering when The Office was going to return to our screens.
Started last week mate, sorry you missed it:p

[Dman]

What a bunch of tossers. You can see there that the 'Google' part was over in a couple of seconds then a long parade of commission junkies with self esteem levels off the register...

"Ask yourself three questions..."

Am I serious?
Am I professional?
Am I ready to make it happen?

If you can answer yes, why entrust your business to these people?

If you are serious - learn about Google and the basic algorithms at work

If you are professional - you will know your market and your product/service and can draw up a list of keywords/keyphrases

If you are ready to make it happen - you'll get off your botty and start writing decent content for your site based on your keyword targetting. You'll watch the page titles, product titles and descriptions, you'll tinker with code to ensure your alt tags are decent, your links use 'title' attributes... you'll follow all the tips and advice people give away for free - just search Google.

Only if you really study how google works can you expect (or do you deserve) any traffic from it. If you can't be bothered, you deserve to get stung by these companies... It's natural selection - it will just speed up the inevitable failure of your business :-P

[richardalun60]

Some good news at last the Trading Standards have woken up. They have sent me a questionaire to fill in about Lavora. I suggest you contact them so you can explain the exceptional service you received from them. Sally-Anne Edwards, Trading Standards, Trafford Council, Talbot Road, Stretford, Manchester M32 0YJ tel: 0161 012 1377 e:mail trading.standards@trafford.gov.uk

I have a court hearing date for 16th September, E:mail me any experiences you have had regards Alun Jenkins Update Lavora settled in full over £800 and court costs. Trading Standards called me and said that you should call you local trading standrds first as the scam took place in your area as it was by telephone, be forcful if trading standrds fob you off or just sue them ( if you want a copy of me case notes ( 1inch thick contact me) and sue them yourself it would appear they normally settle out of court before the hearing date Regards Alun October 7th

[VWP]

Having posted my experiences earlier on the site - I hope the sage words in these threads warn those thinking of engaging them.....

Beware on cancelling .....
When I wrote to cancel, I received a call saying that the payment had already gone through and they would have to run my ad for a month before cancelling. Just in case... I cancelled my card with the bank. Unsurprisingly I had a call from my bank a month later saying that Lavora had tried to take funds out. I then received threatening letters in psuedo legalese threatening court action etc... On digging they said that 'I had agreed' to run the ad for another month and that constituted a renewal of the contract.

Fortunately, now much wiser I kept records of all conversations and the threat of a counter-suit warned them off.

Tony

[VWP]

Alan

Have now contacted trading standards.

Best of luck on the case.....

Regards. Tony

[Jane123]

Hi
I cant believe there still doing this or even being allowed to trade. Needs everyone writing to Trading Standard. The more that complain, Trading Standards have to investigate. There's only one way forward in my opinion. the address is Trafford Council, Trading Standards, Town Hall, Talbot Road, Stretford, Manchester M32 0YX.
We have now just managed to get away from them after threatening legal action. They no longer pursue us for more money but we never got a refund either. We have just posted our complaint. Type into You Tube, Lavora Marketing & you will see a video of Michael Damartiis, one of the director's & owners of Lavora. Unbelievable.......:mad:

[vonhabsburg]

You'll all LOVE this one!! Yup - had a call from them yesterday. Usual blah blah. I thought "But Google doesn't have a home page - you just do it" but being polite I asked them to send an email. Nest day, I got another call asking me if I'd received the email. I hadn't, so as I was online at the time he asked me to key in lavoramarketing.co.uk which I did. It changed to lavora.com so he said that wasn't them. He then suggested I googled Lavora Marketing which I did - and up popped Lavora Marketing Scam!!!!! There was a whole page of reports about them... I told him to take a look and I could see him blanch down the phone!! I asked him if he was working on commission only for a telemarketing company, which he confirmed, so I told him that he was innocently working for a scam setup and go and get his last pay packet. I think he passed all this onto all his fellow callers, and we said "Goodbye". Nice one Frankie!!!
PS And this is how I discovered this wonderful Actinic club!

[grantglendinnin]

I didn't realise how well this thread ranks for Lavora Marketing (http://community.actinic.com/showthread.php?p=283845) - good work :)

[Mike Hughes]

I love Googles snippet:

Lavora Marketing - Actinic Community15 posts - 10 authors - Last post: 6 Jul
Just received a telephone call from somebody from 'Lavora Marketing', they did the usual "I'm ripping you off" talk where they talk so fast ...

Mike

[grantglendinnin]

I love Googles snippet:
Lol, classic.

[guccij]

Lavora Marketing have been looking at this thread today (so my stats tell me). Hope they've found something interesting to talk about in their next video.

[oxleys11]

lol, I have been called by these people recently...

I asked them for more info but they couldnt explain anything other than the sales script they had been given. They are very harsh sales reps, they will try very very hard to get money out of you there and then on the phone. They get angry when you want to go away and think about it.

They came up with stupid figures like 80% of clicks in google are on sponsored results....hmmm, why is a click-through rate around 2-4%? I asked for an estimate on number of clicks for £150 a month...guess what...they dont like to make promises because they are a honest company! hmmm.

Anyway, I'm not going to fall for this, and I find the search results hilarious for their company name in google... just a long list of forums detailing them as con-artists and scammers. Even googles 2nd result for 'suggested searches' when you start typing their company name is 'lavora marketing scam', what a joke!

For those who might have signed-up for this service (oops), perhaps the directors names and home address might help you get your money back (or at least help in complaining)...

Natalie Wheeldon and Michael Demartiis
The Oranges 28 Bradgate Road
Altrincham
Cheshire
WA14 4QU

Good luck in the future Lavora.... you are going to need it!

[signpost]

Hi

Ive just been reading about the experiences of people who have used Lavora Marketing.

I been using them for the last 5 months ( I know its not long) but befor using them I used google ad word myself, just £30 a month and each month I was recieving more calls than I got using Lavora, which was zilch!!

They are very pushy and and I didnt like the thought of them having control of my debit card. I know I should have done my homework. (It wont happen again)

Account is now cancelled, I owe them £113, with card cancelled they are now getting all upset with me, to be honest I couldnt give a monkeys nuts...once bitten and all that. I will definatly not be referring them.

Signpost

[ADirector]

I am yet another mug who signed up for Lavora Marketing. I have told them tried on numerous occasions that I have cancelled (about 7 times now), but they really don't want to know. I am adamant that I will not be making any more payments. I'll see them in court first.

I have cancelled by Debit card and had a new one just to stop them taking any money without authorisation. This is the only payment method they will accept as they can take the money each month without prior permission. The banks can't stop the payment either. If you are considering signing up DON'T. They are nothing but rip off merchants.

I wanted to cancel because the promises they made didn't happen, but it's only now that I want to cancel that their true colours are showing.

[Duncan Rounding]

I am closing this thread as I think that the message has been stated and heard enough times already.