New Community coming tomorrow

[Ben]

Tomorrow morning, the Community will be updated with the following changes:


A new design styled on the new actinic.co.uk website
A new forum category to operate as the new knowledge base
Moving to a new server


The suggestion to move the knowledge base to Community was made on here some months ago and it brings with it several benefits:

You will now be able to find both forum threads and KB articles when you use the search in the navigation bar at the top of each page. (You can also search the knowledge base alone using the advanced search.)
You can comment to the KB articles and suggest amendments. We will operate a policy to read all comments, incorporate them into the article (where applicable) and then delete them to keep the article uncluttered.
You can rate the KB articles for usefulness with the 'Useful Thread?' link at the top of the thread, and we plan to arrange the articles by their usefulness.


We hope this makes it easier to find the articles you need.

There will be some disruption to Community as these changes are made. Community will not be available from 10am tomorrow for a period of up to 30 minutes. Following that it will be available in the current format, but all threads locked and read-only whilst the system is updated and DNS is propagated. As the DNS changes over, you will see the new Community and will be able to post and comment to threads.

Ben

[Darren B]

good news Ben will you also be updating the version?

[Ben]

Thanks Darren. There are some incremental updates we will apply tomorrow but we won't be upgrading to vBulletin 4 at this stage.

[Darren B]

Nah i only ment the latest incrementals but the option to have alternatives themes would be good though, then the user can select the one they prefer and this also allows you to install a smart phone theme for those requiring one ;) i would post a link to a forum to demonstrate this but i cant.

[Chunkford]

Nah i only ment the latest incrementals but the option to have alternatives themes would be good though, then the user can select the one they prefer and this also allows you to install a smart phone theme for those requiring one ;) i would post a link to a forum to demonstrate this but i cant.

+1
having a design for a smart phone is very productive when sat in a coffee shop somewhere :D

[pinbrook]

+1
having a design for a smart phone is very productive when sat in a coffee shop somewhere :D agreed +1 ....

[Goz]

+1 for me as well.

And the "Thank You" button would be useful too.

[Darren B]

And the "Thank You" button would be useful too.

I find this usefull and think its a great idea - KUDOS

[guccij]

omg my eyes my eyes

PS I love it.

PPS +1 for the mobile version

[Darren B]

Noooooooooooooooooooooo

please give me themes - i cant use it, seriously i think its kin awful

[taliesyn]

Noooooooooooooooooooooo

please give me themes - i cant use it, seriously i think its kin awful

+1

I'm all for progress, but I much preferred the old design :)

[peblaco]

Hm not bad. I prefer when the name and user information are to the left of posts as it stands out more to me reading left to right but will get used to it. Other than that much the same but a lighter feel. :)

[leehack]

It's not a fluid width, is this on purpose? Much better when it filled the screen IMO, i have large areas of nothing either side on both screens.

Hover state on the support centre button is moving around, css needs a tweak i think and bit disappointed not to see links to the AUG also, if we're centralising resources, then let's do so properly.

[Mike Hughes]

I agree with Lee about the fixed width. I'm sure the previous version filled the whole screen.

I'm also finding it less easy to see which sections have new posts in them. The two different actinic icons are too close in colour and shade.

Mike

[pinbrook]

As with the main site the colours need a little more depth to tone it down abit - it is a bit bright and not dawn or tired eye friendly. Header is quite deep, esp on netbooks.

Css could do with a tweak to add link, alink, vlink colours - red/blue defaults somewhat clash. Its a shame the colours were changed but the css and icon set remains original Vbulletin - half a job?

BUT I love the KB integrated 10/10 for that

Missing the Google search feature

[EDIT] after a few mins the colour scheme does grow on me abit but dare I say it but it is abit girlie, a pink forum does smack of femininity rather than hard core IT

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

I preferred the fluid width as Lee has mentioned, as the fixed width leaves too much space at the sides.

Have we lost the search option that used google, as we now only seem to have the internal search options. I always tended to use the google search.

On a more positive note I like the integrated knowledgebase.

[wesleythorne]

i think the look is now a bit amateur, it needs some body to it, the header has way to much white and is painful on the eyes to look at for any length of time.

[Duncan Rounding]

I don't like the colour scheme of either the new site nor the new community.
I find it too pale and lacking in impact and certainly hard to read due to the lack of contrast.

[Ben]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

We are reading all comments and making quick changes over the next couple of days. The CSS on the support centre image is fixed - thanks for spotting, Lee. Bigger changes/recommendations will be considered for the next update.

The new style is based on the new www.actinic.co.uk which also has a fixed width, but I know what you're saying about redundant space at the sides.

The google search has indeed disappeared. I wasn't sure whether this was used, but will look to re-enable it.

The plan is to integrate the AUG into the knowledge base, but a link to it in the meantime may be a good idea.

We will make some changes to the colourising of the buttons.

[Duncan Rounding]

...The google search has indeed disappeared. I wasn't sure whether this was used, but will look to re-enable it.....

I (and I think many others) used this a lot due to the restrictions on the forum search. (Such as >3 characters required for the search term etc)

[Chunkford]

after a few mins the colour scheme does grow on me abit but dare I say it but it is abit girlie, a pink forum does smack of femininity rather than hard core IT

Reminds me of Ladies in Lavender (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377084/) for some reason lol

[Darren B]

Are you saying your not going to add alternative themes any time soon? If so i urge you to reconsider this is not a complex task, personally i hate the new colours, and yes many will like them but from my point of view i dont and find it certainly is not easy to read or easy on the eye.

Unfortunately if i cant change it then i wont be a frequent visitor to the forum.

[Steve G Griggs]

I like the new look 10/10 especially integrating the KB with the forum.

[Chunkford]

Give power to the people!!! LOL

BTW, why does it say location and then states the users name?

[leehack]

Give power to the people!!! LOL
Dream on boyo, this is more top heavy than Dolly Parton :D. What on earth would you know anyway, you only use it everyday, a feeble qualification.

[leehack]

The google search has indeed disappeared. I wasn't sure whether this was used, but will look to re-enable it.
If you're not sure, then ask, surely it's a better idea than presuming? It's probably the best tool on the whole forum and is probably the most used one also. The old developers vs users debate rears its ugly head yet again, sigh.

[guccij]

The google search has indeed disappeared. I wasn't sure whether this was used, but will look to re-enable it.This is an imperative for me. I only used the Google search facility as the inbult one was too random in its results for me.

[Rich Brady]

The google search has indeed disappeared. I wasn't sure whether this was used, but will look to re-enable it.

I only ever use the Google search...

Makes placard and jumps on train to Actinic Towers "Bring It Back, Bring it Back"

[Ben]

Ok, to be clear, it wasn't a decision to remove the google search, but simply that it was lost in the re-styling. Sounds like it was very useful, so we'll get it put back.

[markburley]

Please change the colour scheme - I am not against the actual colours but it is very bright and uncomfortable to read.

Mark

[peblaco]

I (and I think many others) used this a lot due to the restrictions on the forum search. (Such as >3 characters required for the search term etc)

Yes can the 3 character limit be changed, it often caught out searches with 3 letters such as css and vat!

[Rich Brady]

TBH I'm a little surprised at the choice of colour for both the community and the new website.

I always tell my clients, and forum users who request feedback on their site for that matter, that good contrast on a web page is important. That they have to consider that some people viewing a screen may be colour blind or have contrast issues, so I'm very interested to hear how/why Actinic decided on this palette?

Don't get me wrong, the layout of the site is far better than before, but IMO much of the site is very difficult to read.

[Rich Brady]

Also, while I'm at it LOL, why is the banner image promoting Actinic Business not a link to the "Buy Now" page?

[Mike Hughes]

OK. Someone has to ask the question.

What banner image?

Mike

[Paul Bulpit]

I was just wondering, has anybody mentioned in the last few days that they don't like the pale lavender colours of the new website and forum?

If nobody has, I'd like to add that I find it all a bit wishy-washy!

Does the header have to be quite so deep? Everybody that comes here knows what its about, and that banner wastes a lot of space by 'KNOWLEDGE BASE' being on its own line.

______________
Paul

[leehack]

OK. Someone has to ask the question.

What banner image?

Mike

+1 for me :D

[Rich Brady]

On the website, sorry., I should have made that clearerererer...

[peblaco]

OK. Someone has to ask the question.

What banner image?

Mike
I'm guessing on the main actinic site not here.

Edit: Beat me to it Rich.

[Darren B]

If you're not sure, then ask, surely it's a better idea than presuming?

Sigh - why say silly things Lee

[Darren B]

I was just wondering, has anybody mentioned in the last few days that they don't like the pale lavender colours of the new website and forum?

If nobody has, I'd like to add that I find it all a bit wishy-washy!

Does the header have to be quite so deep? Everybody that comes here knows what its about, and that banner wastes a lot of space by 'KNOWLEDGE BASE' being on its own line.

______________
Paul

i did a few posts earlier, although Lee said something silly about ask dont presume, as i said if new themes are not availible or the colours changed to be readable then i wont be here anymore unless i really have to.

[Cheapprices4u]

oooh my god
my eyes are burning too much white

im off to the other side ;)
at least i can change themes
be lurking less and less i feel

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

The two Actinic logos that indicates 'Forum Contains No New Posts' or 'Forum Contains New Posts' could do with more contrast between the two as they are not easy to tell apart without looking carefully, although I don't tend to look at them myself as would usually use the 'New Posts' option instead.

[Goz]

I'm getting a problem when I use the knowledge base.

When I click on an entry I get an error relating to :

http://%3cdomain%3e/acatalog/%3Cpagename%3E


Anyone else getting this?

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

At least the Google Search is back, Yippee.

[leehack]

At least the Google Search is back, Yippee.

Woohoo, just the colours, the width, the logo area and white space to sort out now :p. Only kidding, not that bad really, the white space will be fine once the site expands again :).

[Mark H]

Templates or get rid of white areas or both......

I'm not usually a whinger, but this is literally giving me a headache after 3 minutes partly because my eyesight isn't perfect. Bye for now.

[EdHarrison]

I wont comment on the colour scheme (those in glasshouses lol) but the header needs to shrink a lot!

[pinbrook]

Good Grief.... with this thread in mind http://community.actinic.com/showthread.php?t=46388

I opened this forum in full screen with 1600 (i normally pull my browser window back to 1000 ish) I NOW see what everyone is on about...

I take back my comment that i am getting used to it. Flippin Heck ;)

[leehack]

The difficulty for them to gauge is this; is it typical human negative responses to change and people will just get used to it over time, or is it really that bloody awful. The website changes are great on the whole, massive improvement IMO. The forum is a shocker, i'm amazed in all honesty, looks like a part time floristry forum run by June Smith, that has 4 members and averages 3 posts per month.

[Duncan Rounding]

I am getting used to it but I certainly don't like either the forum or the website insipid pastel shades.

I've taken a lot of art classes over the years such as, advanced onc, A level art, various art and design courses, watercolour, life, and many many others and this colour scheme is crying out for colour and contrast - not to mention web readability.

One thing I learnt over the years as a result was not to be frightened of using colour to make a statement. Paint's cheap - use it.

[cbarling]

Thanks for all of the feedback.

We commissioned the design of the new web site from professional designers, had a number of choices, made changes based on various suggestions, then selected one design from an internal poll.

We didn't carry out quite the same process with the community design, instead just asking it to be based on the new web site design.

On a personal note I can't say I'm an enthusiastic supporter of the community design, but I don't find it irritating in the way others obviously do.

We won't do anything immediately. We will let things settle down a bit, then review our next actions.

Chris

[Darren B]

Chris a simple additional to alow users to change the theme is all that is required, then you guys can have your pastals & lilac colours and the rest can choose a colour easier ont he eye.

one feels the same head and sand scenario still exists

[guccij]

Perhaps Chris doesn't spend as much time on here as other people? I find now that I can only spend a couple of minutes flicking through stuff. I just can't concentrate with the colours as they are :(
Please, please change it.

[pinbrook]

On a personal note I can't say I'm an enthusiastic supporter of the community design, but I don't find it irritating in the way others obviously do.

We won't do anything immediately. We will let things settle down a bit, then review our next actions.
Thats just plain silly.. if you dont mind me saying so.

All you need to do is tone down the colours abit and most people will be satisfied.

Delaying to see how people get used to it is not the way forward, We can all get used to a toothache when we have to.

Simple web usability tests show the colours are wrong, comments from the forum simply confirm this.

I often disagree with others here when they say stuff like head and sand as i think sometimes comments are made idealistically and not with budgets/cost/feasibility in mind, but Darren is absolutely correct - add themes so we can choose. Original blue vbulletin and a phone theme would do.

[guccij]

Darren is absolutely correct - add themes so we can choose. Original blue vbulletin and a phone theme would do.+1 from girl wearing sunglasses

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

Even returning the site to a fluid width rather than fixed width would remove some of the bright white area.

[Mark H]

Hey, that's the new Actinic forum at 1920x1200 isn't it?

http://aquazuro.co.uk/img001/goggles.gif

:)

[Mike Hughes]

The fading side bars seem to have been permanently fixed in their screen position. I would guess as an attempt to avoid so much white space at the sides.

I can't say I'm a fan of this. When I scroll a page up or down I expect everything to scroll, not for bits to move up or down relative to other bits. The way it is makes me have to think about what's happening to the page which is not a good idea. Far better to avoid distracting people when they're browsing.

So not a good solution for me.

Mike

[Golf Tee Warehouse]

I noticed that also. I assume this is an attempt to reduce the amount of bright white area at the sides, although returning to a fluid width would be a much better solution both for reducing the excess white space and improving usability.

[leehack]

What i don't think they've clicked onto is the fact that if they set the width to say 90-95%, it will fill 90-95% of the available screen, but they will still get their background if that's the effect they want.

I think what's happening is that if they cave in to a number of users all saying the same thing, they think it's weak and an admission they got it very wrong. I understand that process, it's a little old school, but it happens, so little changes are made, slowly moving towards where everyone thinks it should go. What i'd like to see is a company that release a new look and a has a person on hand to react to what customer's say almost instantly, better still talks to its customers before it does it, waiting simply will not improve the look, it's just gets you used to it more.

I like a company that aims to improve things, not rely on time to make things more acceptable, i hope they stop this ridiculous stubborness, sort it out and get talk on here back to the things that really need discussing. Given the improvement on the communication arena, which it has to be said has been pretty immense for them to change, this whole exercise reminds me of what they were like 2 years ago and i am bitterly disappointed, i really am.

[pinbrook]

I was at a conference yesterday talking about social media, one of the speakers was from kodak, she outlined a situation they had with a camera, that came to market called something like i9.

So many people moaned about kodak using numbers as product names, that they held a poll to rename said camera ( i think this was all twitter).

In due course the camera and others in the same line were renamed with descriptive product names.

Excellent Example of a big corp listening to their customer base 10/10

A little bit later on when asked if Kodak would do the same exercise again - she said no!! :rolleyes:

[jont]

What i'd like to see is a company that release a new look and a has a person on hand to react to what customer's say almost instantly, better still talks to its customers before it does it, waiting simply will not improve the look, it's just gets you used to it more.

Customer focussed companies? Behave yourself Hackett-man.

Nobody likes to admit they are wrong, especially when they have paid good money for something. The strength comes from admission and taking the steps to resolve it.... which is typically only a minor change from the original plan.

[pinbrook]

What i don't think they've clicked onto is the fact that if they set the width to say 90-95%, it will fill 90-95% of the available screen, but they will still get their background if that's the effect they want. the community is quite acceptable at 1024 (my netbook) so the fluid should work!

but i agree with everything you say Lee, there does seem to be a real reluctance to change something which is really quite trivial

[Jan]

A little bit later on when asked if Kodak would do the same exercise again - she said no!! :rolleyes:To be fair Jo you have completely taken that out of context, Madlen Nicolaus was asked if Kodak would use crowd sourcing to name future products and she said no because they felt that they had the naming issue under control now but she also said that they would consider using crowd sourcing to find solutions for different problems.

Regards,

[Paul Bulpit]

Thanks for all of the feedback. ... ... ... ...

... ... ... We won't do anything immediately. We will let things settle down a bit, then review our next actions.

Chris

Very short-sighted in the light of all the criticism from regular users.

Have changed my resolution to see for myself - it's definitely horrible.

[cbarling]

For goodness sake guys (excuse my exasperation), I've said:

- we will review it

- the design of the community wasn't done with the same attention (or by the same poeple) as the design of the site. I didn't say that clearly enough probably

It's being taken as if nothing will be done. That wasn't what I said.

There are a number of points to be taken into account, including how things look in relation to the main site, as there are links from the main site to the KB, and the marketing guys wanted consistency across both. We need to organise the meeting to discuss this in the light of feedback (that's already in process), we need to decide what to do, then we need to do it, then test it and implement it.

Something that is being used by thousands of people won't and shouldn't be changed on the fly. That doesn't mean it will take weeks, it's just that we follow a process.

Chris

[leehack]

I think your previous post came across for a number of us, "we'll take a look in the future", "we'll see how it goes", "we're still not sure that it is as bad as you say", "time will heal". If you counter that response versus something like "We agree it doesn't great and should have paid more attention, but rest assured we are on the case and something will be happening very shortly". I think you'd find the direct rather than wishy washy reply services people much better.

Something that is being used by thousands of people won't and shouldn't be changed on the fly.
Fully agree, but from our end this is exactly what seems to have happened. You said yourself it's not had the level of care it perhaps could have.

That doesn't mean it will take weeks, it's just that we follow a process.
You recently installed 3 customer moderators as a go-between for actinic and the forum, all three of them happen to be web designers and are on here daily, i'm not aware that any of them were included in the process, a little bizarre wouldn't you say? A 10 minute consultation with said people would have ensured clangers like the google search did not occur. Perhaps the "process you follow" needs reviewing, it simply cannot be in tune with its customers! Instead of spending time explaining what you're doing, trying to appease people, why not talk to them before you change things in the first place - much better use of valuable time.

I understand your frustration, you clearly are treating it with some urgency, your wishy washy reply didn't get that across AT ALL. Bear in mind for many of us, this is our online home, a place we see each and every day and love! When you come in throw some poor decor up on the walls, limit the functionality we're used to and show a general apathy towards people's opinions, people rear up (just like you just have). We're passionate about this place, we spend a lot of time on here, it's our home, please bear in mind how much this place means to people.

[leehack]

As a footnote, I think it's important to add that the eye may well have come off the ball with V10 on the horizon, i know you guys are working very hard on that and that is understandable. Just bear in mind this is what we encountered almost every day a few years ago, so please make sure we are not on the way back to those days.

Thanks for coming on and clearing things up also :).

[pinbrook]

For goodness sake guys (excuse my exasperation)
Dont forget Chris, this is how some of us feel too. We have all been working towards better communication for several years now, the fiasco with the community seems to have taken us backwards.

In hindsight would it have been better to say, we will review this next week at our weekly meeting - we like to stick to our proceedures, please expect our response next xxx-day.

No commitment to what you will do, but a clear commitment to discussing it and when to expect feedback.

Very glad to hear you say it wasnt the website designer who produced this... :rolleyes:

[Ben]

You recently installed 3 customer moderators as a go-between for actinic and the forum, all three of them happen to be web designers and are on here daily, i'm not aware that any of them were included in the process, a little bizarre wouldn't you say? A 10 minute consultation with said people would have ensured clangers like the google search did not occur.

Lee, as you know, there is a private forum for the moderators to communicate in. I posted a note about the new design and KB in that forum the previous Friday before the change was made, and included a link to a fully working test forum with the new styling as a preview, but I didn't receive any comments. I agree, it would have been useful to catch some of the 'clangers' beforehand.

[cbarling]

Lee, I thought we gave a preview of the new community to all mods a few days before we went ahead. See Ben Dyer's post on the moderators form. But we got no feedback.

I did use the word "will", not "might" about the review, but OK, that obviously didn't communicate sufficiently well.

Incidentally the things that could be changed straight away without impacting on the other objectives and were low risk, namely changing the space at the extremities from white, and fixing the lack of Google search bug, were both done immediately.

So I will be completely honest and say that I found it depressing that the same tired old "Actinic never listens" stuff seemed to come pouring out.

Chris

[leehack]

Lee, as you know, there is a private forum for the moderators to communicate in. I posted a note about the new design and KB in that forum the previous Friday before the change was made, and included a link to a fully working test forum with the new styling as a preview, but I didn't receive any comments. I agree, it would have been useful to catch some of the 'clangers' beforehand.
I find it all a bit strange that you posted a link to a new forum that has already been built, a few days before it goes live and have somehow convinced yourself that you involved us in the process. Are you saying that if we had said the colour scheme was poor along with the other feedback that a number of people have also said, you'd have jumped into action? please do me a favour and drop that jackanory! You didn't even ask for feedback from what I have read, just posted a "here it is" link.

Contrast that with Ben D's post about forum structure which opens up ideas before things even start and you will see a considerably different attack to the process of creating new things by myself.

You don't include people until the very last stage of a project and expect them to feel they were part of it. As Chris B has pointed out, you need to discuss these things, so the timescales to change anything were an impossibility on those timescales. I have better things to do than spend time on pretend exercises Ben, if you're interested in my opinion, then ask for it before you start and throughout the process. Don't pretend at the end of the process.

[leehack]

Lee, I thought we gave a preview of the new community to all mods a few days before we went ahead. See Ben Dyer's post on the moderators form. But we got no feedback.
See previous post.

I did use the word "will", not "might" about the review, but OK, that obviously didn't communicate sufficiently well.
You've cleared it up now, it's fine, it came across as wishy washy and we know best, but we're all human, i can now see what you was thinking and that things were happening. (will be changing holds so much more weight than a we will be reviewing it, if that makes sense)

Incidentally the things that could be changed straight away without impacting on the other objectives and were low risk, namely changing the space at the extremities from white, and fixing the lack of Google search bug, were both done immediately.
Fair comment.

So I will be completely honest and say that I found it depressing that the same tired old "Actinic never listens" stuff seemed to come pouring out.
Believe me Chris, i really do understand how hard you guys have been working on communication, really i do and on the whole it's so so much better and full credit for that. You're frustrated and so were we, we either have to agree to disagree or work together to ensure these things happen as little as possible.

It's one exercise where things have not been handled any where near as good as they could have been, it's just one exercise Chris, don't get all "same old" it's not like that, it's an isolated event, especially over the past 18 months or so. Many of us love this place Chris and really do give a crap about it, that's what drives people's feelings and their thoughts about it, that's a positive in my book every day of the week. We love your community and care about it, that's all.

[Ben]

Actually, Lee, nobody's pretending anything. What I've said above is simply that the moderators had an opportunity to preview the new design a couple of days before the change was made. I inherited a concept for the design and had to tidy it up within pretty strict parameters and within a tight timeframe. Would I have changed some of the process looking back on it? Probably, yes. Would we have delayed/changed the site if the feedback from moderators was strong enough? Potentially. Was there enough time to make changes such as bringing back the google search? Absolutely, and I don't think pointing that out would have been a waste of anybody's time.

[Ben]

Closing this thread now as points have been made and all taken on board.