Any body use Strato to host Actinic site?? ...SMTP Server Woes...

[dug]

Hi.

We have recently moved our client onto Strato Web Hosting.

We just cant seem to get the order confirmation email configured. have been speaking with Actinic support, they tell us that we need the "Web SMTP" server address - Strato say they have never heard of such a thing (i cant say i have either).

localhost doesnt work, the cart gives an "unable to connect to mail socket, connection refused" message.

if i use smtp.strato.com, then the page just times out ...so i guess local host is speaking with the server, i guess its just failing to authenticate!

the only answer strato give me is to create a pop account, then use smtp.strato.com as the smtp server, and the email address as the user name, and the password. I can understand this principle, and indeed when using these settings in a mail client, the strato server does indeed relay the desired email. actinic support seem to tell me that this has nothing to do with the program relaying an orderconfirmation email to the client through an smtp server ...this is where (using my own knowledge of smtp) start to disagree, and lose understanding ...so i find myself unable to ask the right questions of my hosting company, to get this thing working!!

any help much appreciated!! :)

dug.

v10.2

[NormanRouxel]

Actinic runs a Perl script on your server. This Perl script sends a confirmation email to the customer (and a "Catalog order received" one to you). The Perl script does this by connecting to an SMTP server that should be available within your web hosting environment.

You need to ask your server people what's the server name needed to send an SMTP email from a Perl script running on their server. That server name is the one to enter into the network settings.

[dug]

Hi Norman. thansk very much for you clear and basic explanation. i will take this info to the web hosting support team, and see if they can give me a definitive answer!

much appreciated for you speedy response.

dug.

[dug]

Hi again!

i went back to the hosting company with that info, and i think that they are starting to come round to the realisation that actinic is a completely offline cart, and that there is no way that it communicates with the server where it is installed, then uses an outlook client to then send out a conformation email via an smtp server!!

anyway, now that they realise that its all done by a perl script, he wants to see the script!! asked actinic support, and they're not sure (they will talk with the developers), as when the cart is uploaded the .pl files are merged into other files that reside in the cgi-bin folder.

i downloaded the whole folder and did a search through the files for the word "smtp". the files that got results were:

se000001.pl
se900001.pl
ts000001.pl

briefly looking through them (and not really understanding perl) these are the files that seem to deal with the generation of the mail, the authorisation if needed, and the socket connection to send the mail.

so anyway, i sent these files to the web hosting tech guy, and i'll see what he has to say about it!

i just cant see to believe that this is so difficult. I have a very standard setup, and no one really seems to completely know what they are talking about ...(including me!!).

...confused, and worn out!!

[Duncan Rounding]

se000001.pl
se900001.pl
are both the same. The one starting with 9 is only used when the site is in test mode.

[fergusw]

Doug,
bit of confusion creeping in here.
As Norman said previously it is a perl script on the server (mf000001.pl if I recall) that sits on the web server, in the cgi-bin folder, that is used by both the Actinic website AND the Actinic software on your PC to send emails.
Instructions are POSTed to the perl script file which then uses the SMTP server details defined in the network settings (e.g. localhost for most unix based servers) to send emails out FROM the web server.

i just cant see to believe that this is so difficult. I have a very standard setup

This is why hosting with a company that knows the Actinic software can be very beneficial.........

[DannyBoy]

Some hosting companies disable the localhost option ask the host if they do this and if they can provide a local IP alternative for you to connect to the SMTP server, in most cases localhost should work! or try connecting on a there alternative 587 port instead of the regular 25?

[dug]

hey guys. thanks again for all the info.

fergus, thanks for identifying the file and explaining the principle, i have forwarded this to the support tech. with regards to the hosting company themselves, we have used them for years with no problems, and they have always given excellent customer service. obviously, the information that i require is seemingly more difficult to come by.

and thanks too danny. i have subsequently verified that localhost on port 587 fails aswell, with the same error, "connection refused". again your input adds more clarity to the situation, and will forward this on aswell.

i guess the real problem here is the old adage, if you want the right answer, you have to ask the right question!

...and i guess this is my problem. for fergus and danny, you keep mentioning this "localhost" "feature" ...but how do i put this into a sensible question or request for the technician i am talking to?? ...does this "localhost" feature for web based unix systems have a name or terminology??

...doing a quick google on it doesnt seem to return anything that immediately stands out ...but theen im not that surprised, as the words unix and localhost are quite far reaching!

thanks,

dug.

[fergusw]

Try asking the hosting company

"What SMTP server address should a perl script, designed to generate and send emails from the web server, use to ensure emails are sent? e.g. localhost or smtp.myhostssmtpservice.com etc"

[DannyBoy]

What type of server is this running on? Linux, Windows.?

[dug]

they use unix.

thanks again for all the advice, i have handed all this info to them, and awaiting their response ...im coming to the end of all this tho ...our client's site has been up and down for the last week due to testing of this issue, and it's unacceptable.

im dissappointed that i cant get to the bottom of it. looks like maybe we should use actinic hosting

strato hosting 6GB web space, unlimited traffic, 5 domains, 1500 pop emails, PHP MySQL: £80 / year

actinic hosting 2.5GB web space, 12GB traffic, 5 domains, 12 pop emails, PHP: £450 /year

all for not being able to send a lousy confirmation email ...you do the math!! :(

[fergusw]

the only answer strato give me is to create a pop account, then use smtp.strato.com as the smtp server, and the email address as the user name, and the password.

Doug, Did you try their recommendation in Actinic's network settings and then uploaded before testing?
It may well work for you if the settings work. It simply means that the perl scripts would use the smtp details and authenticate as an email client would when sending emails and therefore it should work.
Note: changes in the network setup must be uploaded to the site before checking to ensure the changes are made to the perl file and then uploaded onto the server. Quite often people get caught out thinking the change only needs to be made client side.

[Mike Hughes]

strato hosting 6GB web space, unlimited traffic, 5 domains, 1500 pop emails, PHP MySQL: £80 / year


I'm not sure what you were expecting for less than £7 a month.

There are lot's of good hosting companies around but as in all things you get what you pay for.

Mike

[fergusw]

our client's site has been up and down for the last week due to testing of this issue, and it's unacceptable.

How much business/revenue have they lost because of this?


strato hosting 6GB web space, unlimited traffic, 5 domains, 1500 pop emails, PHP MySQL: £80 / year

actinic hosting 2.5GB web space, 12GB traffic, 5 domains, 12 pop emails, PHP: £450 /year

Quite a difference on the face of it......

you do the math!! :(

however I'd ask again:
How much business/revenue have they lost because of this? You do the "math!";)

[Duncan Rounding]

You can't go wrong with Actinic and they will help you set it up if you have problems. But you could go middle of the road with 1and1 linux business pro for £14.99/month. There's lots of info around on the forum to set up 1and1.

[dug]

Hi again Fergus.

what you mention in your previous message has been my one major problem in this, all along!! the settings they provided to me work!!! using smtp.strato.com and the user name and password, i can authenticate and relay a message through their server, to any email address i desire, as if it had come directly from the company's exchange server.

...regardless of whether it be a perl script or an outlook client, local or remote, it is still using the smtp protocol, which follows the same basic rules

...smtp server address (local or remote)

...username and password, if authentication is required

...bob's your uncle!!

there are clearly flaws, or limitations in the software, if the perl script will not do what it's meant to do ...i.e. send out an email using the smtp protocol!

but yes, i did always do a publish after i adjusted the network settings.

...and Mike, i dont personally think that "getting what you pay for" wholly applies to the IT world. its such a competitive market these days ...and as i said, we've been using them for multiple clients, for multiple years, and never had a single problem!

Anyway, thanks again, and i guess i'll just have to wait and see if the hosting company can come up with anything good!

dug.

[Mike Hughes]

Agreed. Not always the case and there are some bargains to be had but at the end of the day it is a competitive marketplace and so you have to wonder why someone so cheap can undercut everybody else.

In terms of fixing this problem. There aren't that many variables you can change so if it won't work then it's either a case of keeping banging your head aganist the wall or moving host.

The thing I would do here is:

1. Run a network test, make note of the error.
2. One of the things a network test does is send an email. Look in your error.err file for any smtp errors, there should be loads by now. Also make a note of that.
3. Talk to your hosts. Tell them the error message that you're getting in your error logs. Tell them the time of the error (it'll be in your error log) and ask them to look in their smtp error logs and explain why the error is ocuring.

Mike

[DannyBoy]

Do you have a control panel (cpanel etc?) can you do a phpinfo() file and post results?

How do you create the email address to use with the remote authentication?

[dug]

Hi Danny. here is a link to my php info:

<a href="http://www.modelmasters.co.uk/phpinfo.php">link</a>

I do have a cpanel. i can adjust anything i need. the email account is very standard ...just click on the appropriate domain, and add pop account. these pop details are the ones that are used to authenticate through the smtpo server smtp.strato.com

Mike, the error i get in the error log is "unable to connect to mail socket, connection refused". i have gone to my hosting company with this, but naturally they do not know the program, and because they know that i can successfully relay through their smtp server smtp.strato.com with the smtp/pop account details, they cannot see how it is a problem at their end at all ...i can kinda see where they are coming from, aswell!

Anyway, this is my latest response from them:

=============================
Thank you very much for your enquiry to which I am glad to respond.

It is impossible to use 'localhost', as there are no mail services installed on the hosting server you are currently on, or any other shared webhosting server we are offering. In order to use mail and hosting services on the same server, you would require your own server, on which you could install both services.

If your software does not support using a different server for SMTP communication, which is a basic setting available in most commonly used software, this is the only solution I could offer you. If you are to require any further assistance or information, I or one of my colleges will be happy to oblige.
=============================

thanks.

dug.

[dug]

in fact, Danny, having just read through the phpinfo file, it does mention smtp, under the core PHP configuration table:

SMTP localhost localhost
smtp_port 25 25

Does this mean that the smtp localhost server / port is running?!

[Mike Hughes]

Mike, the error i get in the error log is "unable to connect to mail socket, connection refused". i have gone to my hosting company with this, but naturally they do not know the program, and because they know that i can successfully relay through their smtp server smtp.strato.com with the smtp/pop account details, they cannot see how it is a problem at their end at all ...i can kinda see where they are coming from, aswell!


You need the specific error messge. This will be in your errror logs and in the web hosts error logs.

The bottom line is this:

1. Actinic SMTP works with virtually every web host I've seen discussed here.
2. For some reason the web host SMTP server is refusing the connection.
3. If you want it fixed you need to find out what the problem is so it can be fixed.
4. If your webhost won't tell you why they're refusing the connection then you're stuffed. It can't be fixed if you don't know what the problem is.

Mike

[dug]

hi again Mike.

this is the full error i get from the actinic error.err file.

Program = MailForm, Program version = 22784 , HTTP Server = Apache/2.2.17 (Unix) , Return code = 999 , Date and Time = 2011/04/18 09:54, Internal Errors = Unable to connect to the mail socket (Connection refused)

is there another error file I need to look at? is there a default error file for my space on the web server?

thanks.

[Mike Hughes]

OK. This error is saying it can't connect to the smtp server. When it can there's usually a more specific error message.

You could try changing the port number. See the details here: http://community.actinic.com/showthread.php?t=44653

Mike

[dug]

think im done with all this.

this is the last response i got from the support, and i really have nothing more to say in response!!

The reason for that error is that the web server does not have SMTP installed on it. You can't use the local IP of the server, as this will result in the exact same error, not to mention that this IP is dynamic as well. The other hosting company might have the mail servers installed on the same physical server, but on a different logical instance. We are a bigger company, which separates those two servers completely, in order to assure that your server won't be overrun with mail queries as well. This is also a better security practice, which your program doesn't seem to accept.

I'm not quite sure why your program isn't willing to use external servers (maybe because this program is initially intended for windows based servers), but you unfortunately cannot use the local server in order to send emails. For that you would need a dedicated server, and would also need to configure most of the settings on the server yourself in order to allow your program to work.

I wouldn't want to see you move to a different company any more than you would want to do so yourself, but we do not offer the SMTP service on the same server as hosting, and I can't change that for you.

If you wish to have a more detailed explanation I'll be happy to give you one, and try my best to help you resolve this issue. Just call our service hotline (free call) and ask for me. I'll gladly try and help if I'm available.


guess i'll have to move host!

I really have not understood this whole thing from the start. For one, i fail to see how actinic's method to send out an email via smtp can be soooo different from anything else, two, i fail to see how my host can be seemingly so different from any other host, and three, if everybody else seems to think that this is such a basic issue, why on earth could i get absolutely nowhere with a solution to this problem?!

i can see where my host is coming from ...they gave me details that authorised and worked, and they say that there are absolutely no smtp services running on the web server ....to me this seems completely LOGICAL and GOOD practice to seperate roles ...standard practice IMHO ....so my realy question is, why on earth does no one else seem to have big problems with this.

...i feel that i am missing something extremely basic here in this whole situation ....and am dissappointed that neither actinic's or my host's support seemed to be able to help identify the problem. ...it makes me think that they dont know as much as they would like to think they do!

thanks for your help anyway!

[DannyBoy]

Well the quote from your hosting provider and your php ini file are contradicting as the phpinfo() function reports that sendmail is installed and SMTP is set to use localhost on port 25?

This is a normall config and should work, so when you create an email address from your cpanel what settings does it give you to enter into local mail client for pop and smtp?
normally it would be: mail.yourdomain.com

mail.modelmasters.co.uk mx points to mailin.rzone.de with the IP 81.169.145.100 you could try that for the smtp?

for me smtp.strato.com does not respond and has no mx result

Good Luck

[dug]

http://www.drillpine.biz/actinicstuff/V6(V5)-UsingSendMailInsteadoOfSMTP.txt


randomly found on internet...solved the problem in 5 lousy minutes ...and actinic knew about it all the time!!! ....they just dont "support" it!!

thanks a lot!!

[guccij]

The reason Actinic don't support it is because almost all actinic users have their sites hosted by companies which are known to support the software. For whatever reason, you have decided to go against the grain.

Norman's code was written for v6. We are now on v10 and v11 will be out late this year. Do you really want to stay years behind the times?